Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2018-07-07

Posted by: el00ruobuob / SamsungGalaxyPlayer


<sgp_> Let's get the meeting started
<sgp_> 0. Introduction
<sgp_> We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Meeting!
<sgp_> Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/257
<sgp_> Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support. Stay up to date with the latest events by subscribing to this calendar: https://xmr.ncrypt.sh/index.php/apps/calendar/p/8dP6z6XQDnkPREo4/Monero-Meetings
<sgp_> 1. Greetings
<suraeNoether> howdy~
<rehrar> hi
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Hi!!
<oneiric_> hullo
<ProkhorZ> Hallo!
<OsrsNeedsF2P> First meeting for me =D
<xmrmatterbridge> <serhack> Hi
<xmrhaelan> Hello :)
<sgp_> 2. Community highlights
<xmrscott[m]> Hola
<sgp_> OsrsNeedsF2P made an infographic: https://i.imgur.com/5vzCApv.jpg
<OsrsNeedsF2P> LOL
<sgp_> Atomic Wallet claimed they would integrate on-chain Monero transactions “in less than two months:” https://twitter.com/atomicwallet/status/1011309756588396545
<monerobux> [ AtomicWallet.io on Twitter: "Let's make a bet! We will add @monero to @atomicwallet in two weeks. And for on-chain anonymous $BTC - $XMR #AtomicSwap in less than two months. Remember this tweet! #Mone ] - twitter.com
<sgp_> Nanex added Monero: https://twitter.com/nanex_co/status/1013497592917962752?s=21
<monerobux> [ Nanex on Twitter: "$NIX (NIX Platform) and $XMR (Monero) are now live on Nanex! 🚀 For more on $NIX, follow @NIXplatform or go to https://t.co/JVBC5lvaI5 NIX Minimum Withdrawal: 5 NIX, Withdrawal Fee ] - twitter.com
<sgp_> Anhdres wrote this overview of how accounts and subaddresses work in monerujo: https://medium.com/@anhdres/how-moneros-accounts-and-subaddresses-work-in-monerujo-4fa7df0a58e4
<sgp_> dEBRUYNE_1 made guides for using Ledger with the Monero GUI: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/8vr4nu/ledger_gui_guides_requires_gui_v01220/
<monerobux> [REDDIT] Ledger GUI guides (requires GUI v0.12.2.0) (self.Monero) | 133 points (97.0%) | 50 comments | Posted by dEBRUYNE_1 | Created at 2018-07-03 - 10:27:14
<sgp_> The Outreach workgroup put together a Monero Quick Facts guide: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/8tlkzi/monero_quick_facts_a_resource_for_the_community/
<monerobux> [REDDIT] Monero Quick Facts: A resource for the Community (https://i.redd.it/nhol1gtr11611.jpg) to r/Monero | 120 points (95.0%) | 23 comments | Posted by xmrhaelan | Created at 2018-06-24 - 22:43:15
<sgp_> koe’s “Zero to Monero” overview was added to the new Monero library: https://getmonero.org/library/Zero-to-Monero-1-0-0.pdf
<sgp_> pwrcycle posted about the Defcon Monero party: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/8v2lz2/defcon_monero_party_2018/
<monerobux> [REDDIT] Defcon Monero Party 2018 (self.Monero) | 71 points (94.0%) | 19 comments | Posted by pwrcycle | Created at 2018-06-30 - 15:35:52
<sgp_> MyMonero was added to the iOS App Store: https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/mymonero-send-money-privately/id1372508199
<sgp_> Tari shared the Tari University set of educational materials, which explain topics such as MimbleWimble, merge mining, off-chain scaling, and more: https://github.com/tari-labs/tari-university
<sgp_> Does anyone else have community updates to share?
<xmrhaelan> Here’s a better link for sharing the Quick Facts, as it will automatically have the latest version: http://monerooutreach.org/pubs/2018/QuickFacts/QuickFacts.pdf
<sgp_> I look foward to seeing what else you do with monerooutreach.org :)
<xmrhaelan> Me too
<suraeNoether> I have a draft FFS proposal ready to go for the first US-based Monero conference; waiting on some more details from rehrar, but I can answer questions about the rest of it if folks are curious
<rehrar> ye
<sgp_> surae I'll add a spot for you in the next section :)
<rehrar> we unloaded most all boxes from our move yesterday, so starting to go back to 100% work
<sgp_> 3. FFS updates
<sgp_> There are several Forum Funding System (FFS) updates. Workgroup reports now have their own section.
<sgp_> All of the recent FFS requests were fully funded! https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required
<xmrmatterbridge> <serhack> Community is great!
<sgp_> A large part of the donations came from wealthy donors. A discussion is occurring in parts of the community to encourage more people to contribute. We can discuss this during the open ideas section if time allows.
<sgp_> a. The creator of the Dutch translations proposal reserved some time to discuss it: https://forum.getmonero.org/6/ideas/90462/dutch-translations-kovri-docs-monerujo-and-the-monero-website
<ProkhorZ> Hi, that´s me!
<sgp_> go ahead :)
<ProkhorZ> Thanks!
<ProkhorZ> Hello, my real name is Edwin den Boer.
<ProkhorZ> I´ve been working as a freelance translator for 16 years and active in the community for 4 years.
<ProkhorZ> So far, I did some free translations including 3 GUI updates.
<ProkhorZ> I´d like to request funding for translating the Kovri website, the Monerujo app and the Monero website into Dutch.
<suraeNoether> i support this, and i'll throw some XMR your way once funding required is posted
<ProkhorZ> I hope professional translations will impress users :) and we need better information in Dutch for people researching Monero in Google.
<ProkhorZ> Thanks!
<oneiric_> +1
<sgp_> ErCiccione unfortunately can't be here to comment, but it seems like a good proposal to me
<ProkhorZ> I also wrote a guide for other Monero translators, because I have some experience. See https://github.com/monero-ecosystem/monero-translations/blob/master/translation-tips.md
<ProkhorZ> What do you think about asking funding for a guide I already wrote?
<ProkhorZ> The guide explains things like how to deal with special types of text, how to translate terms consistently and where to find online dictionaries.
<ProkhorZ> In total, I´m requesting 16 XMR.
<ProkhorZ> I´m not planning to do more than one request this year.
<sgp_> In general I don't think it's a big deal. I've asked for reimbursement of travel expenses I've already incurred, for instance
<sgp_> Does anyone have any questions for ProkhorZ?
<Thunderosa> I'm not sure if this is the time or place to bring it up, but the community figuring out a way to assemble a long-term translation work-group might be worth some thought as it's an evergreen need.
<sgp_> ah yes, we need many trees :p
<Thunderosa> I'm thinking about the recent request for Arabic, which is awesome,…but maybe there's a way to not handle things piecemeal
<ProkhorZ> Well, we have a workgroup. You mean consistent funding?
<sgp_> It would be cool if te workgroup had some discretionary funding
<suraeNoether> i don't have questions, but i also don't know how i feel about retroactive funding. arguments for and against. i feel like 1) it's a valuable document and 2) you already put work into it with no expectation of compensation, so I don't think you're being greedy or anything silly like that… I just have no particular opinion one way or the other
<Thunderosa> Along those lines yes,…I'm not quite sure I have a finished idea in my head,..but this is important work
<xmrscott[m]> Workgroup here is https://taiga.getmonero.org/project/erciccione-monero-localization/
<Thunderosa> thanks
<sgp_> I wonder if we can get to the point where the workgroup has quarterly FFS requests for funds they can allocate to individual contributors. Somethign to think about and possibly grow into
<ProkhorZ> Yeah, a translation budget would be great.
<sgp_> But we're getting off-topic from this proposal. Anything else on this one specifically?
<xmrhaelan> That’s kind of what we’re looking at with Monero Outreach
<ProkhorZ> BTW, even if you commented here, it would be very helpful if you also commented on the forum.
<sgp_> ProkhorZ I can post the logs there, remind me if I don't
<ProkhorZ> Great!
<sgp_> All right, we can move on unless anyone has any last-second thoughts
<sgp_> b. The Outreach workgroup reserved some time to discuss their proposal: https://forum.getmonero.org/6/ideas/90417/monero-outreach-ffs-proposal-july-october-2018
<xmrhaelan> Hello and thanks!
<rehrar> yay
<sgp_> go ahread Thunderosa and xmrhaelan
<xmrhaelan> I was encouraged to do so by binaryFate to answer any questions about the FFS that folks might have
<xmrhaelan> I anticipated a few and wrote a short response ahead of time. Perhaps I copy/paste and then see what else folks have….
<OsrsNeedsF2P> I really like the idea of offering marketing packages so people can do physical marketing in their area
<geozdr> where do we buy tickets to the BCOS
<geozdr> BCOS Village / Monero event?
<sgp_> yeah, and we have the meetup kit as precedent that worked well (disclaimer: I helped organize it)
<sgp_> geozdr that's part of Defcon. See more on their website
<rehrar> geozdr: cash at the door only
<geozdr> sorry didn’t realize there’s a meeting going on. Thanks sgp
<xmrhaelan> Copy paste isn’t cooperating with my IRC client, so here’s a summary we put together:
<xmrhaelan> http://monerooutreach.org/pubs/Proposals/MarketingOverview.pdf
<sgp_> this is likely the most professional thing the community has done
<xmrhaelan> Basically we plan on surveying Monero users, crypto users, and non-crypto users, to help us identify what sort of messages resonate best with each audience. That way we are approaching Outreach with information rather than shooting from the hip
<xmrhaelan> @Thunderosa: is the brains behind it, so he can chime in if there’s important pieces I miss
<Thunderosa> That doc has the link to the merchant approach:
<Thunderosa> http://monerooutreach.org/pubs/Proposals/MerchantsOverview.pdf
<Thunderosa> We're thinking of a concerted effort, but that's really a fundementally different group with different concerns
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> Lul. These guys are doing a decent thing.
<xmrhaelan> This first quarter of funding will allow us to do that surveying work, identify additional talent, and develop tools for the community to expand our overall Outreach efforts significantly
<ProkhorZ> Impressive!
<OsrsNeedsF2P> (y)
<oneiric_> very nice
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> Have you guys considered using the Wownero funding system?
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> funding.wownero.com
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> I'm serious btw. Have a proposal at both. Get all the money you can.
<sgp_> It looks like people are pretty quiet today
<OsrsNeedsF2P> I'm just shocked
<OsrsNeedsF2P> I never realized Wownero was this serious
<xmrmatterbridge> <anhdres> Hello
<xmrhaelan> Does anyone have any questions about our FFS proposal?
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> They have bulletproofs implemented already.
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> Wownero > Monero
<sgp_> rehrar let's keep your shilling to a minimum :p
<xmrmatterbridge> <anhdres> Great work with the outreach initiative btw
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> Yes. Really. This stuff looks great!
<xmrhaelan> Sorry my client timed out. @rehrar I will look into it, but definitely want to stick with Monero
<sgp_> re: outreach - I'm very impressed
<xmrhaelan> Thanks guys :) we have a good team forming
<oneiric_> srsly, really good work
<Thunderosa> Thank you, and fuck Wownero.
<sgp_> lol
<OsrsNeedsF2P> :O
<xmrhaelan> Hahaha
<oneiric_> lol shots fired
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Jeez man
<xmrmatterbridge> <anhdres> You can never know the talent you can get on board once you reach beyond crypto enthusiasts
<sgp_> All right. Time for surprise part c) surae discusses upcoming Monero Conference proposal
<suraeNoether> Howdy everyone
<xmrmatterbridge> <anhdres> Wownero is like the bizarre Monero right?
<sgp_> howdy
<rehrar> what dogecoin is to Bitcoin, wownero is to Monero, and banano is to nano
<rehrar> hi suraeNoether
<suraeNoether> Basically, we've been chatting with a conference organizer, and we have our whole expected list of costs laid out with the exception of paying for a designer for things like the website and logo etc
<suraeNoether> usually I ask rehrar for these things, so we are chatting about it
<suraeNoether> we are shooting for a 1.5 day conference with around 6 sessions of speakers, hopefully for 2-4 talks per session
<suraeNoether> flying all those folks out to give talks is the most expensive part
<suraeNoether> I have an itemized breakdown of our costs, the conference organizer I'm working with has worked for 17 years doing pharma conferences of for-profit companies like Johnson and Johnson and international non-profits like Save the Children
<ProkhorZ> Could we do an unconference? It´s more fun and cheaper.
<endogenic> sounds great
<endogenic> surae
<suraeNoether> ProkhorZ: everyone gets a mcdonald's dollar french fry and access to a 3m by 3m square for a tent
<OsrsNeedsF2P> I'll fund the french fries
<endogenic> lol
<suraeNoether> So, I asked the organizer about 2 weeks ago for the proposal, it's all almost done except for a few details. i'm also talking with fluffypony about "who holds the money and pays for things without incurring crazy taxes"
<xmrmatterbridge> <anhdres> I can fund ketchup
<sgp_> yeah, taxes are the most difficult part
<OsrsNeedsF2P> When will the conference be happening?
<suraeNoether> Shooting for late Spring or early Summer 2019, in Denver, Colorado, USA. Dates are TBD and will be somewhat dependent upon the venue we select, we are hoping to avoid other big conferences like consensus, etc
<sgp_> so you're telling me I should buy my flights now?
<suraeNoether> clearly :D
<endogenic> sounds lovely
<suraeNoether> we'll do a community-wide doodle poll and sybil attack it. :P
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Actually price dips the most closer to 13 weeks out from the flight tips fedora
<OsrsNeedsF2P> sry
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Just thought I would pitch that out there
<sgp_> Anything else you want to mention surae?
<suraeNoether> nope, that's it unless folks have questions. rehrar's suggestion about using both the wownero and monero funding systems seems like a good idea for the monero conference for a couple of reasons to me
<sgp_> Does anyone else have a FFS update, or comments about any of these FFS proposals?
<oneiric_> Is there a rough estimate on ticket price surae?
<sgp_> Zcon0 was $900, so we can probably charge at least double /s
<suraeNoether> that's one of the options for the FFS. the conference won't pay for itself without sponsors, unless ticket prices are comparable to zcon0, which is crazy, and i'd rather have open registration…
<xmrhaelan> Hi @sgp_ I apologize but I need to sign off. We don’t have any new Monero Outreach workgroup updates besides what’s been discussed earlier in the meeting. If you can post logs to our FFS too that would be very much appreciated. I will follow up with devs about moving our proposal forward :)
<rehrar> I think it'd send a powerful message if the conference was free
<endogenic> how?
<suraeNoether> current total cost is somewhere between 50 and 72.5k USD, and around 30-35k of that is assumed to be costs related solely to flying speakers out and giving theem hotel rooms
<sgp_> np xmrhaelan
<suraeNoether> rehrar: i agree
<xmrhaelan> Thx. Goodbye everyone
<rehrar> endogenic: how? by showing that the tech is freely available as well
<rehrar> FOSS ideals
<suraeNoether> if we had 70 USD tickets, i'd be okay with that, too, that's a very cheap cost for a day and a half of technical talks
<Diffusive> Guys are you planning a conference?
<ProkhorZ> Seriously, a conference with big names with be great for publicity, but I hope we can still be more anarchist and less professional than Zcash. Will there be room for discussion, student papers etc.?
<Diffusive> I just got into the conversation
<rehrar> yes Diffusive. That's the current meeting topic.
<endogenic> that doesn't say the tech is libre , it says someone will pay for others to teach it
<Diffusive> Maybe i can help
<vp11> conference being free would be very cool, although it would need to have some kind of 'attendance management' to make sure the venue won't have more people than it can support.
<Diffusive> I'm working with Mozilla, so maybe we can get some help from them.
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Oh shit no way
<suraeNoether> vp11 yeah, we will require registration, it'll just be that registration will be free
<suraeNoether> Diffusive: if Mozilla sponsored this conference i think i would totally lose my pants in excitement
<rehrar> Diffusive: that's pretty awesome dude
<Diffusive> I've made a few conferences in my country with them
<vp11> that would be pretty cool
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Diffusive, surae wants to get some speakers out in the Summer of 2019 to Denver, Colorado USA
<Diffusive> But if you're reallyplanning a big one i will need to contact a few ppl
<vp11> suraeNoether, make sure to contact the guys from purism, they already have a healthy relationship with monero
<oneiric_> hell yeah, Mozilla ftw
<suraeNoether> Diffusive: yeah, please contact me at [email protected] or [email protected] and we can chat about it! cool beans!
<sgp_> And all the people we are working with at DefCon
<sgp_> I don't want to spend too much more time on this, but everyone is understandibly excited
<suraeNoether> sure
<rehrar> dude, yes. Purism needs to be there
<sgp_> 4. Workgroup report
<suraeNoether> yes.
<OsrsNeedsF2P> brb 2 min
<sgp_> a. Outreach workgroup
<sgp_> Already covered in the FFS section :)
<sgp_> well, we need to stall for 2 minutes until OsrsNeedsF2P is back
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Back
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Sorry tornado
<sgp_> b. Monero Marketing workgroup
<Diffusive> suraeNoether, i'm going to send you an email there.
<sgp_> go ahead then. OsrsNeedsF2P would like to discuss a new initiative that he has started.
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Okay sick so
<OsrsNeedsF2P> I'm a big Reddit guy, I'm usually hanging out there, you may have seen me around
<OsrsNeedsF2P> And while I was making my old post about all the Monero subs I found /r/MoneroMarketing which right now redirects to /r/MoneroCommunity
<OsrsNeedsF2P> I wanted to create a little "Monero Marketing" initiative that does similar work to the outreach group, but with a different approach
<OsrsNeedsF2P> My goal is to create an environment where generic cryptocurrency fans can come in, learn about Monero and enjoy it at a surface level. I would like to appeal to the people that Monero doesn't currently appeal to with their very strict privacy ideology.
<OsrsNeedsF2P> I've started doing a bit of a rough-draft of one of the things that shows how I want to approach this, and you can see it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/MoneroMarketing/comments/8wohz7/understanding_monero_the_journey/
<monerobux> [REDDIT] Understanding Monero - The Journey (self.MoneroMarketing) | 2 points (66.0%) | 0 comments | Posted by OsrsNeedsF2P | Created at 2018-07-06 - 22:54:02
<OsrsNeedsF2P> So in this example, it's the kind of thing where if you're discussing Monero with someone already interested in Cryptocurrency, and it follows a chose-your-own-adventure type system and appeals to their interests and tries to tie it back to Monero
<oneiric_> what a cool idea
<OsrsNeedsF2P> I would also like to go as far as to create talking points, shilling points and much more (that doesn't align with the current Monero ideology) but keep it outside the main subreddit
<OsrsNeedsF2P> And for this, I was hoping to request moderator status on /r/MoneroMarketing itself so I could start to run my initiative there
<rehrar> #themonerojourney
<suraeNoether> segregating talking points/shilling points from technical and community discussions seems valuable
<rehrar> I think there needs to be a place for shilling to occur
<rehrar> I know it's not super popular in the community
<rehrar> but it will happen anyways
<rehrar> might as well have a place where people can do it where it won't get in the way of real discussions
<Diffusive> Guys what would be the points of this Meeting?
<OsrsNeedsF2P> If you follow down the paths I've created in the Monero Journey, you can kind of see I bring to light that /r/Monero and to an extent /r/xmrtrader is not the place for shilling talk.
<OsrsNeedsF2P> I have two main goals with this approach
<OsrsNeedsF2P> The first is to really appeal to the other person and bring them over. Fighting and name calling is fun, but it doesn't win anyone over.
<rehrar> sgp_ can you link github issue for Diffusive?
<OsrsNeedsF2P> The second is to absolutely make sure it does not affect the rest of the community.
<vp11> Diffusive, https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/257
<Diffusive> Thanks.
<vp11> let's make it a private server on runescape with custom quests about monero :) jokes aside, since r/MoneroMarketing is just a redirect, I see no issue in giving it to OsrsNeedsF2P. he has shilled monero on r/Monero and r/CryptoCurrency a few times and has the potential to shill more. let's give the guy some ammo.
<sgp_> thanks vp11
<rehrar> really, all of us shill Monero. We just like to call it more sophisticated things (like having "technical discussions"). High brow shilling we do.
<OsrsNeedsF2P> This is slightly controversial and not typical Monero community behavior, so I just want to make sure everyone gets their concerns out
<rehrar> Let's have the low brow shilling too :D
<sgp_> I spoke with OsrsNeedsF2P yesterday and we shared similar thoughts vp11
<sgp_> rehrar and I are comfortable shifting it over to someone else
<suraeNoether> rehrar +1
<sgp_> My largest concern is people could be confused if they thought MoneroMarketing was the same workgroup as before, but it's been a long time so this isn't a big concern imo
<OsrsNeedsF2P> As I don't expect /r/MoneroMarking to blow up overnight, if any confused users choose to comment I can give them a full detailed explanation myself
<rehrar> and I think the difference with that and Monero Outreach is distinct enough. Outreach focuses on education and more formal methods. Marketing is looking at more guarilla marketin
<vp11> I guess my only condition is letting sgp_ and someone else (rehrar possibly) as moderators in case things get to an extreme level, so we can moderate each other and keep it clean.
<rehrar> *guerrilla
<vp11> rehrar, indeed. I also have some ideas that could go well on a more superficial, relaxed marketing channel like r/MoneroMarketing
<sgp_> vp11 we could only have a small amount of "control" anyway; they could always make their own subreddit
<rehrar> I will hack reddit if things get out of hand
<rehrar> well for the most part, I hear few concerns and no dissent, so I think you're a go OsrsNeedsF2P
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Wonderful. Thank you everyone :)
<sgp_> expect an invite in the next 5-7 business days /s
<sarang> Sorry for being unavailable for meeting today… I was repairing bikes for underprivileged kids
<rehrar> I have two points to discuss
<rehrar> sarang: shameful
<sgp_> rehrar in open ideas or here?
<rehrar> open ideas I guess
<rehrar> but they are things for community discussion
<rehrar> not really ideas
<sgp_> 5. Open ideas time
<rehrar> quite important ones too
<sgp_> It’s open ideas time! Feel free to propose your ideas to this discussion group, and feel free to comment on others’ ideas. If you disagree with the idea, please reply with constructive criticism. Thank you!
<vp11> lol, there you go
<sgp_> start us off rehrar
<rehrar> alright people, so here's the deal
<rehrar> a few meetings ago we had a discussion about the tracking challenge
<rehrar> https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required/88145/monero-tracking-challenge-2
<sarang> ah yes
<rehrar> since it looked like it wasn't going to get funded, and since there were major concerns with the trust issues of the thing, we had all but decided it should be routed back to general fund
<rehrar> and then used to seed other FFS proposals
<rehrar> since that time, that message was conveyed to the core team, and they agreed to the plan
<rehrar> but about a week ago, a very generous individual went through
<rehrar> and systematically funded all outstanding FFS proposals
<rehrar> including the tracking challenge. It's funding is now complete.
<rehrar> So it is now funded, but the trust issues remain. The core team did an epic face palm, and we're once again in a bit of a limbo state here
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Can someone brief me on the trust issue? Is it just a matter of the person setting it up being able to "win"?
<rehrar> yes
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Because that would be bad
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Just to be clear,
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Do they "Win" or do they steal it?
<sgp_> rehrar my suggestion is to schedule another discussion section next meeting
<rehrar> sgp_ that's fine. It'll hold for sure.
<rehrar> Also, the proposal is past expiration date
<Diffusive> Mmmm
<rehrar> if you look at expiration, this proposal should be invalid
<OsrsNeedsF2P> I agree it should be invalid, however, the tracking challenge holds great merit
<OsrsNeedsF2P> A lot of people don't understand what Ring Signatures or Stealth Addresses are
<rehrar> we have a HackerOne for vulnerabilities and exploits
<OsrsNeedsF2P> If doable, this would be an amazing way to show them in terms they understand
<sarang> and that comes with well spelled-out policies
<rehrar> I disagree this challenge has merit
<Diffusive> Truth
<erciccione_[m]> I'm here…what did i miss? :P
<Diffusive> I read a guy that wasns't satisfied with the whole process
<rehrar> few people besides nation states have the resources and capabilities to track any of this stuff
<Diffusive> he even did a post about it
<oneiric_> right, good hackerone writeups should be understandable to most, and when made public will get distilled by journalists
<sgp_> erciccione_[m] the Dutch proposal discussion and a desire for the localization workgroup to have a discretionary fund
<rehrar> so it's a foolish little bragging point "well, if you say it's easily trackable, why don't you claim the prize money then?"
<rehrar> when that person who claims it is trackable cannot do so
<rehrar> they lack the resources
<rehrar> and a nation state that DOES have the resources will not claim the prize money
<vp11> I believe we all agreed that the amount of this project would be sent to outstanding proposals (by now, I think only the HackerOne is not fully funded?) and the rest would go to the general development fund. Is there any need for extra discussion?
<sgp_> yeah, it's mostly a marketing stunt honestly
<rehrar> they would rather just keep tracking
<rehrar> it gives a false sense of security
<sarang> So the argument is to use the funds for something with better return, I suppose
<rehrar> "nobody has claimed the money yet"
<OsrsNeedsF2P> I think if we invalidate the tracking challenge we should at least keep the donations relevant
<sarang> like research or projects etc
<Diffusive> nations would never reveal that they found a vuln in Monero
<OsrsNeedsF2P> And instead of sending the money to the general fund it gets sent to the HackerOne.
<rehrar> eaxctly Diffusive
<sgp_> vp11 I believe that is rough consensus,but the situation has changed enough that it probably warrants at least another scheduled discussion
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Agreed
<rehrar> sgp_ well if people don't have somewhere to run to, I think we can have that discussion now
<rehrar> in fact, since sarang and erciccione_[m] showed up, it's better :D
<sgp_> rehrar it's typically good to include those agenda items clearly in advance
<rehrar> ah, true
<rehrar> it allows more people who want to be aprt of the discussion to come
<OsrsNeedsF2P> I think a week to think it over would fare well
<Diffusive> And individuals that can actually find a vuln are rare
<rehrar> and this is a large enough sum of money that I will indeed concede
<sgp_> eg: several states have laws certain groups can't make important decisions about things if they aren't mentioned in the agenda
<rehrar> let us discuss it next community meeting
<sarang> Well, to catch me up, what are the most prominent options for use of the funds?
<sgp_> all right, cool
<Diffusive> Mark it in the next issue
<sarang> (no decisions here, just info)
<rehrar> the second thing I want to discuss isn't so important enough as to warrant the same sort of preannouncement though
<rehrar> sarang let me berak it down real fast
<sarang> ty
<rehrar> 1. Tracking challenge commences (funds stay and complete proposal)
<rehrar> 2. Tracking challenge is cancelled and money goes to General fund
<vp11> let's schedule a discussion for the next community meeting. make a reddit post to make sure we publicly invite all the community to participate (some participation will happen in the comments which is alright) and then we can make a final decision. let's make sure to have some of the big boys (core team) present too.
<sgp_> vp11 just like we did last time :)
<rehrar> 3. Tracking challenge is canceled and money goes to other proposals in the same spirit
<rehrar> alright, my other discussion point now, if I may
<ProkhorZ> Agree with vp11
<sgp_> yeah keep going rehrar during "rehrar's ideas time"
<rehrar> erciccione_[m] and I have had a few back and forth talks about incentivizing and gamifying FFS donations to try to increase involvement
<vp11> quick question: did we succeed in contact the author of the proposal? I mean, he's the owner of the current wallet, right? I thought he was MIA?
<rehrar> right now, I will quickly break down my plan, and erciccione_[m]'s was similar with a couple tweaks
<erciccione_[m]> Thanks sgp_ , i gave a quick look to the logs already, writing now because my flight departs soon. About the dutch proposal, as for precedent proposals i don't endorse any FFS about translations, but i can say ProkhorZ always did a great job and helped a lot with dutch translations and not only those.
<erciccione_[m]> about a little fund for the translations, i honestly don't like too much the idea
<rehrar> or would we also like to dicsuss incentivation next meeting?
<sgp_> good to know ercicicone_[m]
<Diffusive> Sorry if i'm not participating enough, i'm in the middle of another real life meeting lmao
<Slack_8> <xmrhaelan> I’m back via Slack. +1 for @OsrsNeedF2P taking on r/MoneroMarketing. @rehrar I need to chat with you offline about the definition of guerrilla marketing :P …. Unless there’s an immediate need for the tracking funds, then I think one option would be to vote to make it discretionary, so if something emergent comes up, it could be made available, but in the meantime it could stay in the pot as a challenge rewar
<rehrar> the sooner we start it up, the quicker it will be
<Diffusive> i'll try to read the backlog
<sgp_> rehrar we can still discuss this here
<rehrar> ok
<rehrar> so the plan was something along these lines
<Diffusive> funds for translations
<Diffusive> do you think the community wouln't like the idea?
<rehrar> You have tiers of giving that donators can achieve. Something like copper, bronze, silver, etc. These can be achieved in two ways. Either by giving a certain amount of XMR, or by giving to a certain amount of proposals (minimum 0.1 XMR each).
<rehrar> So as an example, achieving bronze might be giving 5 XMR total, or donating to 10 FFS proposals (0.1 XMR minimum each)
<sarang> What's the overall intent?
<sarang> More interest in general?
<rehrar> the reason for the two fold approach is so "richies" can get to the high tiers right away if they want, but for non-richies to be able to also reach said tiers
<rehrar> yes sarang
<rehrar> just getting more people willing to donate
<rehrar> rewards for tiers can be along the lines of special reddit flairs
<sarang> Folks also brought up having a more user-friendly way to know what proposals are open
<Diffusive> And these tiers will be shown in reddit flairs right?
<sarang> like on reddit somehow
<rehrar> or maybe merch given to higher tiers
<rehrar> there was also discussion
<Slack_8> <xmrhaelan> This idea would also just improve awareness of the FFS in general
<Diffusive> i like the idea of reddit flairs
<rehrar> of contacting merchants taht accept XMR and seeing if they'd be willing to offer discounts to high tier individuals
<rehrar> for their goods/services
<Diffusive> Awesome
<sarang> I think we also need low-hanging fruit like QR codes
<erciccione_[m]> My idea was slightly different but i think rehrar's one is better. I would just change the name of the tiers, will check the ones i proposed timw ago
<rehrar> of course, all of this would tie donations and transactions to a pseudonym (or maybe eral life identity depending)
<rehrar> because you would have to prove you donated and how much
<vp11> as I said before, this idea is excellent. it does absolutely zero harm, participation is of course optional, it raises awareness to the FFS (because people will see the flairs and they will want it too), and will create some kind of "competition" for higher ranks, meaning people will probably donate more.
<rehrar> unless someone is willing to code an automatic thing that would verify
<rehrar> it would have to be verified manually for now
<sgp_> I think this is fine since it's optional
<ProkhorZ> Hm, wouldn´t we encourage people to give up their privacy?
<rehrar> ProkhorZ: it's optional. you don't have to play
<Diffusive> you can prove a XMR transaction without giving up your id
<sarang> Make the privacy implications here
<sarang> clear
<Slack_8> <xmrhaelan> The manual verification seems like a big vulnerability
<Diffusive> why?
<rehrar> as long as the disclaimer is clear about giving ones privacy up for this transaction, it shouldn't pose an issue
<vp11> "vulnerability" is a strong word I guess, for something like verifying payments and attributing flairs, but this can totally be automated.
<Slack_8> <xmrhaelan> What if that person is a bad actor? Or compromised by one?
<Diffusive> Hmmm
<rehrar> then he knows who funded a FFS proposal
<sarang> even less… who _opted in_ to showing they funded an FFS
<Slack_8> <xmrhaelan> Haha, I suppose. Or starts dishing out Platinum flair to an army of shills…
<oneiric_> or can choose who to give rewards and who not
<rehrar> anyways, I don't want to keep tabling this discussion for too many times
<vp11> the pre-automated era would be managed manually by a 'reliable' person in the community. remember, if someone doesn't trust this 'person' or don't want to play, it's completely optional.
<rehrar> vp11: the spreadsheet can also have access by several people
<Diffusive> While i think most of the regular users won't want to donate
<vp11> maybe we can make the new FFS in a way that has already this implementation in mind…
<Diffusive> We may need a little high basic tier
<sarang> But seriously, this is also a great time to add QR codes to FFS…
<rehrar> getmonero.org/forum-funding-system
<sarang> let's not make it annoying to donate
<Diffusive> Like 0.3xmr
<sgp_> rehrar: I think there's a general interest in having this added to the subreddit with the privacy disclaimers and reminding people it's optional
<rehrar> We just need names for tiers
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Sarang brings up an excellent point
<ProkhorZ> We need to update the FFS system anyway, so I guess few people will object if you want to do the work.
<OsrsNeedsF2P> We cannot make it tedious, a hassle or otherwise annoying to donate
<Diffusive> maybe the metals in Esperanto?
<vp11> so I guess we all agree that it's a cool idea that can (and should) be discussed and developed as an independent project. maybe the next step is creating a taiga project? :)
<Diffusive> Bronze, gold, silver… in Esperanto
<Slack_8> <xmrhaelan> @diffusive +1
<rehrar> Noob, Beginner, .. … …, King, god
<endogenic> i'm thinking about adding featured proposal donation links to mymonero in the future fwiw
<sarang> or use the metric prefixes in some way
<Diffusive> lmao
<Diffusive> :pepehands:
<rehrar> dude, we shoudl totally use the different greek gods
<rehrar> work to achieve Zeus
<vp11> implying I want to be Zeus and not Hades
<sarang> Nonsense
<sarang> Cronus
<sarang> he begat Zeus
<Diffusive> ^
<Diffusive> I see you're a man of culture as well.
<sarang> I didn't take 5 years of Latin/Greek for nothing
<sarang> I took it for _almost_ nothing
<endogenic> yeah it was ~40k
<Slack_8> <xmrhaelan> Lol
<rehrar> anyways, that's that
<sarang> lol, it was in high school
<vp11> so… let's move the discussion to a Taiga project and develop the idea there?
<rehrar> I'll probably spark a discussion in this channel sometime this week
<endogenic> oh lol nice
<rehrar> not a bad idea vp11
<endogenic> cool high school
<Diffusive> Srsly, meme ranks would be funny
<rehrar> alright, that's it for me
<rehrar> anyone else
<endogenic> thanks rehrar
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Agreed vp11
<ProkhorZ> Just one quick request.
<sarang> Have the tiers be the names of off-brand versions of famous sodas
<sarang> Mountain Lightning!
<rehrar> Dr. Sparkle
<sgp_> we could make it meme-esque. Eg: 1-supporter 2-botnet operator 3-secret premine 4-pegasus 5-pony 6-masternode operator 7-I already exit scammed, etc. Not sold on this, just throwing it out there
<vp11> 8- tippero
<endogenic> haha
<OsrsNeedsF2P> I love that
<sgp_> Now that rehrar is done, any other ideas?
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Botnet operator
<Diffusive> premine best tier.
<ProkhorZ> I run a list of Monero-related accounts on Twitter. Are you missing on that list? Let me know in a DM on Twitter. https://twitter.com/edbwt/lists/moneristoj/members
<monerobux> [ List members ] - twitter.com
<OsrsNeedsF2P> "I already exit scammed"
<Diffusive> sgp_, awesome list.
<sgp_> ProkhorZ add me plz if desired @JEhrenhofer
<erciccione_[m]> But instead of merch, i would go for discounts or something like that
<erciccione_[m]> Sorry guys gotta go. Will read the logs and write something that actually make sense tomorrow
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Take care
<sgp_> anyone else? are we all tired from so much discussion?
<vp11> ProkhorZ, although I didn't update for a while, you could add @monerobrasil that is a relay for the news and articles that I publish in the Monero Brasil website.
<erciccione_[m]> Sorry guys, bad connection i think my message arrived delayed
<sgp_> 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
<sgp_> The next community meeting will be two weeks from today on the 21 July at 17:00 UTC. The next Coffee Chat will be on the 14 July at 17:00 UTC (NOT 16:00 UTC). When in doubt, use the calendar: https://xmr.ncrypt.sh/index.php/apps/calendar/p/8dP6z6XQDnkPREo4/Monero-Meetings
<sgp_> 7. Conclusion
<sgp_> That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on /r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, and know that change starts with YOU.
<Diffusive> Who's gonna make the notes?
<oneiric_> awesome, great meeting sgp_
<vp11> the monero community is literally the best cryptocurrency community out there. prove me wrong and I tip you with 5 XMR.
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Great stuff everybody! I have a thread up on /r/Monero discussing the tracking challenge for everyone in the community to contribute to.
<xmrmatterbridge> <el00ruobuob> If my irc has recorded everything I'll do the notes
<xmrmatterbridge> <el00ruobuob> Otherwise I'll see with sgp_

Post tags : Dev Diaries, Cryptography