January 19, 2019
<sgp_> 0. Introduction
<sgp_> We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Meeting!
<sgp_> Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/298
<sgp_> Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support. Stay up to date with the latest events by subscribing to this calendar: https://xmr.ncrypt.sh/index.php/apps/calendar/p/8dP6z6XQDnkPREo4/Monero-Meetings
<rehrar> HI GUIZ
<sgp_> This will probably be a relatively long meeting, so hang in there!
<sgp_> 1. Greetings
<_Slack> <sean> Hey
<sgp_> 2. Community highlights
<sgp_> knaccc opened this excellent GitHub issue on I2P-java. I recommend reading it and participating in the discussion. We will mention another meeting on Kovri and Monero’s network privacy in a few minutes: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/5070
<sgp_> Breaking Monero episodes 3 (0-decoy and chain reactions), 4 (chain splits), and 5 (input selection algorithm) were released: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOyC6OB6ezA&list=PLsSYUeVwrHBnAUre2G_LYDsdo-tD0ov-y
<monerobux> [ Breaking Monero Episode 01: Introduction - YouTube ] - www.youtube.com
<sgp_> We sold over 400 copies of Mastering Monero, available on most Amazon stores (US, UK, DE, FR, ES, IT, JP).
<sgp_> MyMonero finally released their redesigned website :) https://mymonero.com
<sgp_> Isthmus published a study of Monero’s nonce value distribution: https://hackernoon.com/utter-noncesense-a-statistical-study-of-nonce-value-distribution-on-the-monero-blockchain-f13f673a0a0d
<sgp_> Exa Wallet released their wallet in stagenet. They open-sourced their fastsync MyMonero-esque tool, and they say they will open-source the app in a week or so. The app includes interesting multisig functionality: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/agqqqi/exa_wallet_beta_screenshots/
<monerobux> [REDDIT] Exa Wallet Beta Screenshots (https://imgur.com/a/WHjfnKw) to r/Monero | 46 points (92.0%) | 16 comments | Posted by SamsungGalaxyPlayer | Created at 2019-01-16 - 22:31:10
<sgp_> Does anyone else have community updates to share?
<ErCiccione> New member of the Monero Ecosystem Project, Pymonero: https://github.com/monero-ecosystem/pymonero
<sgp_> 3. FFS updates
<sgp_> We are waiting on fluffypony for the forum to go out. Rehrar says it’s out of his hands at this point.
<sgp_> Any other comments rehrar?
<serhack> (Hi everyone!)
<rehrar> if you know a good PHP developer, please send them myw ay
<rehrar> the FFS backend is open source and on the repo.getmonero.org
<endogenic> fluffypony is a good php dev
<rehrar> and Devin can continue working on it (and he's doing great work, but at a slow pace), but maybe he can have some help? :)
<parasew[m]> laravel or php support needed?
<rehrar> There's not too much left to do
<rehrar> laravel I think parasew[m]
<serhack> I can confirm. Laravel support needed.
<sgp_> FFS proposals still needing funding:
<sgp_> el00ruobuob Jan-March: https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required/91563/el00ruobuob-january-to-march-part-time-for-a-new-quarter
<sgp_> ^ this one appears hidden for some reason. It probably needs some Reddit love
<sgp_> Monero Konferenco: https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required/90909/surae-noether-first-denver-monero-konferenco-spring-2019
<sgp_> Are there are proposals in ideas that I missed? I don’t see any.
<lurkinandlearnin> Lots of spam in need of funding
<ErCiccione> there is also mine still not completely funded yet: https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required/91261/erciccione-coordinator-of-the-localization-workgroup
<sgp_> ErCiccione: it was so close I overlooked it :p
<ErCiccione> No problem :)
<sgp_> Does anyone else have a FFS update, or comments about any of these FFS proposals?
<sgp_> 4. Event topics (35C3, Defcon, Camp, FOSDEM, Konferenco)
<sgp_> msvb-mob msvb-lab asked for me to reserve some time for event discussions. Take it away!
<msvb-mob> We're not preparing for an appearance at BSides Munich which was what we did last year.
<msvb-mob> FOSDEM is next up, although it's unclear if I can speak there (conflicting calendar.)
<msvb-mob> Defcon China is after that, but we have no official role.
<msvb-mob> Konferenco (I'll let others explain this part.)
<parasew[m]> 35c3 was good, but also exhausting. we are planning to release a report asap but didnt find time yet.
<sgp_> suraeNoether can speak if he's present. I know he is still looking for the venue
<parasew[m]> also the 35c3 produced a lot of insights for us, especially regarding conference management, recording, streaming and documentation. we want to bring in all this for supporting the conferenco.
<msvb-mob> And finally Defcon, I submitted an application and it's possible that (if accepted) things go similarly like last year… Except that we might have a private noncohosted space.
<msvb-mob> That's all I have to announce regarding events, maybe others want to announce other events or ask questions?
<needmoney90> we should have a privacy-coin village.
<rehrar> needmoney90: but a non-cohosted space (meaning we have no village partner) is the way to be, no?
<needmoney90> While a non-cohosted space would be nice, having other things present is useful to fill up time (and have a wider variety / selection of things to choose quality from)
<rehrar> well that's actually the cool thing of owning the whole village
<nevvton[m]> As 35c3 was succesfull, we as organizers also got the offer to join the Chaos Communication Camp, being held close to Berlin, which only gets hosted every four years, late August this Year.. So there is good chance to have a monero community outreach among this great hackers summer camp
<rehrar> at 35C3, we had Grin and Namecoin speak
<rehrar> and it was our decision
<rehrar> if we don't cohost the space, we can definitely still bring in other people for speeches outside of our community
<rehrar> and publicize that. But we just don't share scheduling or any other sort of responsibility with other people to make it happen
<nevvton[m]> yes.. definately..
<midipoet> We could have a Monero Defcon Village, but ensure that the call for talks is communicated to as many vetted/respected communities as possible.
<msvb-mob> rehrar: That's the case I made to management, that if they like the idea of cohosting they should give us the total control and we will invite other groups.
<nevvton[m]> also we've got alot of feedback from within C3 community - being thankfull dfor the diversity of talks..
<nevvton[m]> there is alot of interest to continue this format and a couple of people offered help too for next year
<nevvton[m]> so i guess its a good sign, when people want to keep the cdc alive
<msvb-mob> nevvton: Most people complimented RIAT's efforts at 35C3 because of the excellent stage and comfortable work environment, lots of space and power, nearby food.
<nevvton[m]> (cdc critical decentralisazion cluster)
<sgp_> Cohosting caused a ton of management headaches. needmoney90 I totally agree different topics are important though. I think the options are to have a Monero-organized "privacy coin" village or a Monero village that also talks about other interesting topics. I lean towards the latter
<rehrar> Privacy Coin Village by Monero?
<rehrar> I'll give that some thought
<sgp_> msvb-mob: are there Defcon venues available with separate "stage" and "booth" sections? One section where people can mingle, work on challenges, and talk?
<ArticMine> Monero Village
<ArticMine> if it can e done
<rehrar> I think I'm going to agree with you ArticMine
<rehrar> after ten seconds of thought
<rehrar> it just sounds right and is a reward for all of the hard work we do honestly
<sgp_> "Monero Privacy Village"
<msvb-mob> sgp_: The only thing resembling separate stage booth sections is what IoT Village have, a giant three times size room where they can separate with couches and banners.
<rehrar> Monero has slaved to do things well, and because of that, only Monero is allowed in the capacity we are at places like Defcon and C3
<ArticMine> That is fine also sgp
<rehrar> I think that's something to kind of shout about. It lets people know we are the real deal
<rehrar> it says a lot to have "Monero" name at Defcon as a standalone, and nothing else
<needmoney90> that is true.
<lurkinandlearnin> If you call it "Privacy Coin Village" you'll have people wandering in asking "Is this where I can spend my Tron?"
<rehrar> and no other project has the same. It says the conference organizers know we are in it for the right reasons, and "endorse" that to the crowds.
<msvb-mob> Any representation here from Konferenco? Seems important?
<nevvton[m]> on behalf of riat and team - we are already planing to join in for defcon.. and also offering help and in case needed share some conference knoledge for Konferenco, regarding streaming, … but organizers first
<sgp_> suraeNoether posted a recent update in #monero-research-lab; he's looking for a venue. There are conflicting conferences in Denver on the selected dates, so they could change
<midipoet> The only thing that Defcon might object to is if they see it as a 'branded' room. Afair no other rooms were like that, were they?
<sgp_> midipoet: up last year lol :p
<midipoet> It was BCOS
<midipoet> Blockchain Open Security?
<sgp_> It was officially "BCOS/Monero"
<midipoet> Ah ok
<midipoet> My bad
<sgp_> Any final comments on conference stuff? Make sure to keep us updated in #monero-community
<sgp_> 5. Hardware topics (help to advise concluding FFS 90126)
<msvb-mob> Here's an enclosure, please answer two questions to choose the color:
<msvb-mob> While you're thinking about that, there are a couple entries in the FFS 90126 relating status.
<msvb-mob> And because there's no sense in keeping to wait hoping for a fiat price correction, I've proposed to defund certain requirements so that the forum entry can be completed:
<midipoet> Colour should be Vantablack
<msvb-mob> Quick explanation, the budget is detailed and most items are neither payable in XMR nor negotiable (main part is plastics engineering we must subcontract for.)
<msvb-mob> So instead of waiting two years, I'll forego all time compensation and plug the otherwise budget lack hole.
<msvb-mob> That's the short explanation, it's rather important to understand however.
<msvb-mob> Does everybody understand or have questions?
<sgp_> I'm looking at the numbers now
<sgp_> In USD, how large is the shortfall?
<sgp_> Or EUR
<msvb-mob> There are eight budget areas, which one do you mean?
<msvb-mob> The subcontracting, services, and other quotes are in EUR by the way. If I ever write a number, you know.
<sgp_> You originally allocated 195 XMR for worktime and 8 XMR for travel, right?
<msvb-mob> sgp_: Yes.
<msvb-mob> Those are the two entries which will be defunded, to plug the other holes.
<msvb-mob> …however it's complicated, because to take advantage of the cheapest quotes a trip to Shenzhen is possibly needed. Each EUR spent on the trip saves 3 or 4 in costs, for example.
<sgp_> If you're willing to fulfill the other requirements, there should be nothing on the FFS holding that back. But if you understandably want some compensation, you could absolutely open another FFS proposal to cover the difference
<sgp_> We did this for the bulletproof audits
<msvb-mob> sgp_: I want compensation, but it's more important to me that the project maintains inertia and… I hate complication so the proposed defunding seems the most effective and simple way to accomplish conclusion.
<msvb-mob> Can anybody think of a good reason to not do the defunding in the way I've proposed?
<midipoet> I think reallocation of funds is fair, but I think msvb-lab should be afforded leaving up request for travel and work time; in the hope that the community will deal with shortfall the project has experienced. Especially for a crucial project.
<msvb-mob> midipoet: Can you rephrase that in a concrete way, without adding any complication? That might be impossible, but if you can then please do it.
<rehrar> the thing we want to avoid is bad blood
<rehrar> if msvb-mob feels jipped by the community, then just open another FFS
<rehrar> if he understands that it was Monero and not the community, per se, then let him defund now, and if he wants compensation he can think about another FFS for that soon
<msvb-mob> rehrar: Kind of difficult with me to produce bad blood, sorry that's not happening.
<rehrar> awesome ;)
<midipoet> What rehrar said is more succinct.
<sgp_> then work for nothing! /s
<rehrar> we always want to remember the humans behind the projects
<rehrar> and that does include living expenses
<rehrar> so michael, don't feel bad, ashamed, or any other negative emotion for opening an FFS for your time
<msvb-mob> It would be nice if a few of us would make comments in that subthread 'defunding' to voice support or not? Thanks if you do.
<sgp_> Seriously though, we're not going to complain if you meet these requirements. But of course, you should consider asking for more XMR if you need it, and volatility circumstances threatened your support of the project
<sgp_> Sure, we can add some comments
<msvb-mob> sgp_: Okay, then as long as a few add comments we can close the topic and move to the next, thanks.
<sgp_> We already did 6. survey
<sgp_> Looks like black and transparent are evenly split, semitransparent and semiopaque evenly split too
<msvb-mob> Okay, good. By the way (anybody who has not done the survey yet) you can find out what the prevailing color and transparency appearance of the enclosure is, at the end of the survey it is revealed what our colleagues are voting on the most.
<sgp_> 7. Workgroup report
<sgp_> Do any workgroups have something to report?
<ErCiccione> Not much really. Just wanted to say that i'm in the process to move all localization work about the CLI on Pootle. Soon will do the same with Monerujo
<sgp_> Is Pootle still all it's cracked up to be?
<ErCiccione> Pootle is working just fine for now and translators started to use it massively. The true test will be during next release. A lot of new cose = a lot of new strings
<msvb-mob> ErCiccione: What was the other platform before changing to Pootle??
<ErCiccione> btw it's not perfect without translation memory
<sgp_> Any other workgroup updates?
<ErCiccione> and the plan is to integrate a translation memory with pootle to make everybody's life easier and to have translations more ocnsistent across projects
<ErCiccione> msvb-mob: there was no platform, people just committed directly on GitHub
<ErCiccione> … and it was a nightmare
<ErCiccione> not much more to say really
<ErCiccione> unless somebody have questions
<sgp_> Whoa, we have time for open ideas time!
<sgp_> 8. Open ideas time
<sgp_> It’s open ideas time! Feel free to propose your ideas to this discussion group, and feel free to comment on others’ ideas. If you disagree with the idea, please reply with constructive criticism. Thank you!
<msvb-mob> sgp_: Kovri will not be discussed right, probably because of the forthcoming meeting that should come first, or?
<rehrar> my idea is to shut down Monero
<rehrar> we can all go home to our families and actually enjoy our lives
<sgp_> msvb-mob: right, there will be an entire meeting for that and related topics
<sgp_> I'll explain in #9
<msvb-mob> What's the doodle URL to choose the Kovri meeting time?
<_Slack> <sean> https://doodle.com/poll/a5592wfdsc6yretv
<sgp_> Everyone is quiet today. No ideas?
<lurkinandlearnin> I believe we should develop some sort of community response in the case of a 51% attack
<lurkinandlearnin> Similar to the vulnerability response plan
<vp11> msvb-mob, do you mind me sharing the wallet enclosure appearance survey on reddit?
<sgp_> hmm interesting lurkinandlearnin
<parasew[m]> idea: protocol upgrades every 2.5 months
<sgp_> parasew[m]: good luck getting the Core Team to make builds that frequent :)
<fluffypony> rehrar: I haven't heard anything from Devin or you regarding FFS deployment - is he done?
<oneiric_> rolling release with CryptonightR
<fluffypony> when I last spoke to him he was still busy with it
<lurkinandlearnin> Shortening the protocol upgrade timeframe is one idea to fight ASICs, but would cause a lot of other issues
<rehrar> fluffypony: no
<ErCiccione> I gotta run. See you folks, have a nice meeting and day
<rehrar> he hasn't worked on it in the past week. Said globee rolled something out taht kept him busy
<rehrar> said he was hoping to put some hours in this weekend
<sgp_> on lurkinandlearnin's note, I have drafted a blog post on Monero's awesome new pruning. Should be good optics to counter the "Monero is great but can't scale" narrative
<msvb-mob> vp11: Yes, it's okay to share, broadcast, and widely publish the enclosure appearance survey.
<oneiric_> o/ ErCiccione
<vp11> thank you
<ErCiccione> ah, vote the poll about Kovri if you want to participate because i will close it soon
<parasew[m]> gtg, bye everyone!
<fluffypony> rehrar: ok cool thought I was misunderstanding from the comment above, but I figure you mean "out of your control" as in you're waiting on Devin not that you're waiting on me :)
<sgp_> fluffypony: is it possible to send out that email to the Monero-announce list today or tomorrow?
<lurkinandlearnin> Looking forward to that sgp
<rehrar> fluffypony: yes
<rehrar> I'm waiting on PHP stuf
<fluffypony> sgp_: which email?
<sgp_> the payment ID one
<fluffypony> sorry I'm a little disjointed today
<fluffypony> I will look at it tomorrow, but please remind me
<sgp_> All right, thanks
<sgp_> I have the meeting scheduled for Friday, so the sooner the better
<sgp_> Any final open ideas?
<fluffypony> ok cool
<lurkinandlearnin> I don't actually know what a response to a 51% attack should be, but we should definitely have one
<lurkinandlearnin> It's just as important as disclosing major bugs
<sgp_> I'll see if I can at least outline the properties of a good response
<sgp_> I'm sure the release will vary significantly depending on the circumstances
<sgp_> 9. Confirm next meeting date/time
<lurkinandlearnin> Yes just something for people to think about before some future meeting I guess
<sgp_> The next community meeting will be in 2 weeks on 2 February at 17:00 UTC. I will be speaking at the Monero NYC meetup during this time, so I will unfortunately not be able to attend. I'm looking for others to run it (hint: rehrar, ErCiccione :))
<sgp_> The next Monero Coffee Chat will take place next Saturday on 26 January at 17:00 UTC. Apologies for needing to reschedule this one.
<sgp_> We will have a discussion on the future of payment IDs on 25 Friday at 17:00 UTC. Please be present if you would like to take place in this discussion. We would like to make a decision during this meeting, so please prepare your arguments ahead of time or include them in the GitHub issue: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/299
<sgp_> ErCiccione is planning a meeting on Kovri and the state of Monero network privacy. Please participate in knaccc’s GitHub comment here: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/5070. Furthermore, please fill out ErCiccione’s Doodle to schedule the meeting time ASAP: https://doodle.com/poll/a5592wfdsc6yretv
<sgp_> When in doubt, use the calendar: https://xmr.ncrypt.sh/index.php/apps/calendar/p/8dP6z6XQDnkPREo4/Monero-Meetings
<sgp_> 10. Conclusion
<sgp_> That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, and know that change starts with YOU.
<sgp_> Thanks rehrar
<midipoet> thanks sgp_ for hosting..
<ArticMine> Thanks sgp
<lurkinandlearnin> Thanks sgp!
<sgp_> np, thanks for joining!