Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2018-10-13
October 13, 2018
Logs
<rehrar> 0. Introduction
<parasew[m]> hi!
<rehrar> We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Meeting!
<rehrar> Link to agenda on Github: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/283
<rehrar> Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
<xmrmatterbridge> <txmr> hi
<rehrar> Stay up to date with the latest events by subscribing to this calendar (just a sec)
<rehrar> https://xmr.ncrypt.sh/index.php/apps/calendar/p/8dP6z6XQDnkPREo4/Monero-Meetings
<rehrar> 1. Greetings
<ErCiccione> o/
<parasew[m]> hello!
<sgp_> sorta hi
<xmrmatterbridge> <txmr> hey
<rehrar> 2. Community highlights
<rehrar> You can now read the Monero Moon, a curated weekly newsletter regarding all things Monero. Here is the latest issue which covers October 2-8: https://medium.com/@johnfoss/the-monero-moon-issue-5-a475d0568071
<rehrar> The previous issue from September 25-October 1: https://medium.com/@johnfoss/the-monero-moon-issue-4-cbaa5488a4ee
<rehrar> Keysheet published a great overview of privacy coins: https://www.keysheet.io/guides/best-privacy-coin/
<rehrar> Coindesk published a piece regarding hyc’s RandomJS proposal, still a work-in-progress: https://www.coindesk.com/one-musicians-creative-solution-to-drive-asics-off-monero/
<rehrar> Watch Howard talk about it here in LA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3RDdWuYqmQ
<monerobux> [ Howard Chu at Monero Los Angeles discusing Monero's Proof of Work - YouTube ] - www.youtube.com
<rehrar> sgp gave an interview with Blokt: https://blokt.com/news/monero-xmr-interview-privacy-is-a-basic-human-right-justin-ehrenhofer-talks-of-the-importance-of-monero-exclusive
<rehrar> m2049r spoke about Monerujo at Paralelni Polis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl2SpPFgATY
<monerobux> [ Institute: USER X VS UX (DESIGNING IN DARKNESS) with Dimi "m2049r" Divak - YouTube ] - www.youtube.com
<rehrar> binaryFate spoke about fungibility on a panel with others at Paralelni Polis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMq2jm6ljD8
<monerobux> [ Studio1: PANEL - TRULY ANONYMOUS CRYPTOCURRENCIES - YouTube ] - www.youtube.com
<rehrar> Exantech wrote an explanation of ring confidential transactions (RingCT): https://blog.goodaudience.com/monero-confidential-transactions-or-send-i-know-not-what-to-someone-i-know-not-whither-337f20f0d64e
<rehrar> ArticMine (a Core Team member) spoke on Moneor Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECqcf-Nyjmw
<monerobux> [ Articmine of Core on the Architecture of Monero - YouTube ] - www.youtube.com
<rehrar> rehrar announced the Monero Games, a tool to encourage support and FFS participation: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/9m2id8/introducing_the_monero_games_help_monero_change/
<monerobux> [REDDIT] Introducing The Monero Games! Help Monero! Change the world! Claim the Champion's Crown! (self.Monero) | 22 points (83.0%) | 7 comments | Posted by Rehrar | Created at 2018-10-07 - 04:25:56
<rehrar> sgp created a “certification” of sorts where users can pass a test to get a special flair as a part of the Monero Games: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/9n4638/introducing_the_monero_certification_for_the/
<monerobux> [REDDIT] Introducing the Monero "Certification" for the Monero Games! (self.Monero) | 37 points (92.0%) | 20 comments | Posted by SamsungGalaxyPlayer | Created at 2018-10-10 - 22:22:27
<rehrar> Does anyone else have community updates to share?
<ErCiccione> (i have to leave in about 30-35 minutes. just fyi)
<rehrar> ok
<rehrar> by definition, that is a community update, so thank you
<parasew[m]> here is a short report from hcpp from me https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/9nu5vl/short_monerorelated_recap_of_hcpp18/
<monerobux> [REDDIT] Short Monero-related recap of HCPP18 (self.Monero) | 8 points (100.0%) | 1 comments | Posted by parasew | Created at 2018-10-13 - 14:32:04
<ErCiccione> hehe lol
<rehrar> awesome, thank you parasew[m]
<rehrar> alright, let's move on
<rehrar> 3. FFS updates
<rehrar> FFS proposals still needing funding:
<rehrar> https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required/90800/erciccione-coordinator-of-the-localization-workgroup-translations-another-quarter
<rehrar> https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required/90652/monero-ecosystem-translation-to-brazilian-portuguese
<rehrar> https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required/90849/m2049r-part-time-september-november
<rehrar> https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required/90717/the-rehrar-tour
<rehrar> hmmm… el00ruobuob_[m]'s needs funding too, but I can't find it.
<rehrar> Alright, new proposals:
<rehrar> johnfoss69, the author of Monero Moon, created a FFS proposal to make more: https://forum.getmonero.org/6/ideas/90902/the-monero-moon-a-new-weekly-newsletter-regarding-all-things-monero
<rehrar> suraeNoether put of an initial proposal outline for the upcoming Monero Conference in Spring 2019: https://forum.getmonero.org/6/ideas/90909/surae-noether-first-denver-monero-konferenco-spring-2019
<rehrar> midipoet has a FFS proposal request for speaking at CryptoFinance 2018 in Norway: https://forum.getmonero.org/6/ideas/90872/midipoet-represent-monero-at-cryptofinance-2018
<rehrar> Does anyone else have a FFS update, or comments about any of these FFS proposals?
<selsta> I actually suggested that johnfoss continues the old Monero Observer FFS
<selsta> would anyone have a problem with that?
<ErCiccione> about my funding proposal, i just wanted to point out that monero is my only source of income at the moment, i really hope to get funded soon, because otherwise, i think i will have to find another job :(
<rehrar> selsta: I do not. And I had spoken with the original Observer FFS proposer and he said it was fine to pass the remainder of his XMR along to the next person
<selsta> because a new proposal wouldn’t be smart with the current funding situation
<rehrar> so this is indeed an elephant in the room type of thing that both ErCiccione and selsta are alluding to
<rehrar> the fact that funding the big proposals (MRL and mooo) usually tires people out from funding for a while
<rehrar> so the smaller ones take much more time
<selsta> maybe we can get the core team to split up the tracking challenge to fund the current FFSs + keep a backup for other proposals
<rehrar> they sometimes provide a seed or top some off, yes
<rehrar> but their job is not to fund them
<ErCiccione> yes, for me it is actually a big deal. and i agree with selsta, i wanted to propose the same
<rehrar> we need more community involvement
<rehrar> this is my purpose behind starting the Monero Games
<rehrar> did you guys take a look at that?
<ErCiccione> it's not about being their job or not, they manage the funds donated by the community. And there are some xmr laying there from the tracking challenge at the moment that could help the remaining FFS to get funded, at least for this round
<selsta> I think the Monero games is a great idea, but the current problem with the FFS is the price. People how are involved with the project for a longer time are starting to get drained out while newer people don’t have enough to donate a lot.
<selsta> an updated FFS interface would be great too but you are working on that
<ErCiccione> rehrar: i think that's a cool idea, but it was sad to see that the community basically didn't care at all. And in any case, it doesn't fix the main problem with FFS: people don't like to spend money. But i have no solution for that
<selsta> who*
<dsc_> Can I speak or should I wait
<dsc_> o/
<rehrar> go for it dsc_
<dsc_> Just wanted to let the community know I was looking into a full time (3 months) FFS for GUI development so it gets the proper attention it needs and I can seriously focus on it
<el00ruobuob_[m]> Sorry i'm late
<rehrar> great, thanks dsc_
<dsc_> whether it's doable, don't know. Ill try.
<ErCiccione> that would be great dsc_. It's really needed
<rehrar> in my eyes, it's one of the responsibilities of the community workgroup to engage the community regarding donations
<rehrar> I realize the most we can do is make sure it's in people's faces, spread awareness of how Monero works (many don't know we just rely on donations), and more
<thrmo> rehrar, qr codes on each individual FFS would help a lot, afaik Malmen was looking into that.
<rehrar> QR codes will be a part of the new FFS (which is coming along pretty good)
<thrmo> It would make it that less painful for monerujo/xwallet/cake wallet users which I think are a decent chunk of the ecosystem these days.
<rehrar> ye
<parasew[m]> rehrar: the QR codes are amazing news! this will hopefully increase participation.
<rehrar> I will speak with the core team about topping off the current FFS proposals with the tracking challenge
<kinghat> good idea, dsc_!
<parasew[m]> how can we increase participation? maybe reddit overviews of existing FFS in /r/monero? or in the monero moon?
<thrmo> rehrar, those funs should probably revert back to the general donation fund imo
<rehrar> thrmo: yes, that was what was initially agreed upon
<ErCiccione> BTW, Kovri is building up a new decentralized FFS system, the discussion is interesting and the results could be ported to monero's. The discussion is here: https://gitlab.com/kovri-project/kovri-meta/issues/1
<thrmo> Having said that, the transparency and overall activity of the General donation fund could be improved.
<dsc_> rehrar: Is there an API for retreiving a list of currently active FFS's? Example: https://funding.wownero.com/api/1/proposals
<rehrar> but if it goes to the GF, then they decide to give some from there, then great
<rehrar> thrmo: can you give some ideas?
<rehrar> dsc_: that is one of the new features in the new FFS
<dsc_> cool!
<rehrar> and some various wallet devs were bouncing around the idea of displaying some FFS proposals in their UI
<selsta> +1 on general donation fund transparency, but that’s not something for this meeting
<thrmo> Ok, so the general donation fund used to donate to FFSs, ever since a few months ago it went awfully quiet and apart from the funds that are on the BTC wallet no-one knows how much funds the general donation fund even holds.
<rehrar> I believe it is selsta. If the community would like transparency, then it belongs in the community meeting. :D
<selsta> thrmo: there is a view key, but that dosen’t tell the whole story
<rehrar> thrmo: ok, I'll ask the core team about that
<thrmo> Yes, it doesn't
<rehrar> what else would we like to see on that transparency front then?
<rehrar> key images posted?
<rehrar> explanations?
<selsta> anyway I was just wondering because fluffy said that the Monero CDN is paid by Globee in the past and now said that the general donation fund pays for it. (which would obviously be okay)
<thrmo> parasew[m], I think that QR codes (and thankfully they're coming) will boost participation.
<thrmo> rehrar, I'd be ok with an overall statement every X months pgp signed by a majority of the core team
<thrmo> but that's me
<rehrar> just with the balance?
<rehrar> I think if they clarify major expenses (such as CDN) that'd be helpful
<thrmo> sure, that would be great too. Just to keep the community on the loop. several people still donate to the general donation fund so I think they're entitled to a bit more transparency.
<thrmo> I'm a transparency maximalist regarding management :D
<rehrar> Another idea to kick around
<rehrar> nobody is enforcing a Core Team general fund monopoly
<rehrar> if someone would like to start a fund that would donate to FFS (especially during downtime when there is no FFS to fund) and have whatever privacy/transparency terms they want, they are free to try to do so
<thrmo> Sure, I also think that would be great. That doesn't negate any of my previous points though.
<rehrar> the general fund is merely a fund with the trusted party of the core team, they don't have to be the only trusted party, nor the only fund ;)
<rehrar> just something to kick around
<ErCiccione> nobody is enforcing a Core Team general fund monopoly <– that's when the decentralized FFS idea become interesting
<rehrar> understood thrmo :)
<rehrar> ok, we're running along in time here, so let's move on
<ErCiccione> sorry rehrar i have to got in like ten minutes, i can give a brief update from the localization workgroup now if it's ok for you. Not much to say btw
<rehrar> good discussion guys, we can continue soon
<rehrar> 4. Workgroup report
<thrmo> But yes, for sure, having a separate fund outside of the core team scope would be great, decentralize :)
<rehrar> This is a new separate section where other workgroups can report on all that they are working on. If you would like for your workgroup to be represented, please contact me at least a few hours before the meeting.
<rehrar> a. Localization workgroup
<ErCiccione> ok, good
<ErCiccione> so, we are all set for 0.13. I worked with the GUI devs everyday for one week, some days even 10 hours straight working on translations, but we finally got most of the languages ready
<ErCiccione> the related issue can be found here: https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/issues/1582
<ErCiccione> as for every hard fork, i'm tired as fuck, but quite satisfied, since, again, all the major languages, and almost all the other ones got proerly translated
<ErCiccione> everything is basically ready for 0.13 when talking about translations, i also already synced all the language files to the code
<ErCiccione> don't remember if i said that last meeting, but i finally got shell access for translate.getmonero.org
<rehrar> woot
<el00ruobuob_[m]> great
<xmrmatterbridge> <serhack> Fantastic :)
<ErCiccione> which host pootle, the localization platform. Will start to work it after 0.13 is out, because now all my time is dedicated on that
<ErCiccione> *on the release
<ErCiccione> so yes, that will make translations much easier and less stressful for everybody
<ErCiccione> the platform will probably directly commit to monero-gui and monero
<ErCiccione> but i still have to talk with the core team about that
<thrmo> great news.
<ErCiccione> thank you guys. Also, all guides for translators have been moved from taiga to https://github.com/monero-ecosystem/monero-translations
<ErCiccione> so i don't have to jump from taiga to github all the time
<ErCiccione> don't have much more to say i guess. But if you have questions, please ask them now because i have to run in few minutes :P
<rehrar> you are true royalty ErCiccione, and us peasants couldn't do much without you
<ErCiccione> lol, thanks rehrar. Hope the community will keep me funded or i will got to work for verge!
<ErCiccione> or maybe monerov, haven't decided yet
<ErCiccione> :P
<thrmo> verge is the footure
<ErCiccione> ok, rellay gotta go now, see you later folks! have a good meeting
<rehrar> bai
<rehrar> 5. Monero 0.13.0.2 update questions
<rehrar> I have reserved some time to answer any questions regarding the scheduled protocol upgrade happening this Thursday. You need to update your mining and wallet software to be compatible with the network going forward.
<rehrar> This upgrade brings substantial privacy, usability, and security updates.
<el00ruobuob_[m]> will the gui be tag soon?
<rehrar> dunno. Next.
<rehrar> :P
<rehrar> hopefully, yes
<rehrar> I'm looking forward to it too
<thrmo> is there anyone keeping tracks if pools are patched for the next fork? and if yes, where to check it
<rehrar> oy, good question.
<el00ruobuob_[m]> thrmo, supportxmr has a new banner, warning users, so they must be
<vp11> did the hour change? god I came in late
<vp11> my bad guys, gonna read the log
<el00ruobuob_[m]> don't worry vp11, same for me.
<thrmo> el00ruobuob_[m], great
<rehrar> k, running short on time, and we got another meeting right after this for c3
<rehrar> so let's move along
<rehrar> 6. Open ideas time
<rehrar> It’s open ideas time! Feel free to propose your ideas to this discussion group, and feel free to comment on others’ ideas. If you disagree with the idea, please reply with constructive criticism. Thank you!
<rehrar> Ideas are as scarce as FFS funding XMR. Ba dum tsh
<rehrar> Too soon?
<el00ruobuob_[m]> I'm having mail notification issue on repo.getmonero.org. Are you guys seeing it too?
<rehrar> Alright. 7. Confirm next meeting date/time
<rehrar> The next community meeting will be two weeks from today on 27 October at 17:00 UTC. When in doubt, use the calendar: https://xmr.ncrypt.sh/index.php/apps/calendar/p/8dP6z6XQDnkPREo4/Monero-Meetings
<rehrar> (no el00ruobuob_[m], we'll get to the bottom of it)
<rehrar> The next Coffee Chat will be on the 20 October at 16:00 UTC. Right after the protocol upgrade :)
<rehrar> 8. Conclusion
<rehrar> That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on /r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, and know that change starts with YOU.
<rehrar> kthanksbai
<rehrar> Alright, can we get some volunteers to rearrange the tables and chairs for the C3 meeting?
<thrmo> bai!
<el00ruobuob_[m]> thank you!
Post tags : Dev Diaries, Cryptography