January 04, 2020
<needmonero90> 0. Introduction
<needmonero90> We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Workgroup Meeting!
<needmonero90> Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/424
<needmonero90> Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
<needmonero90> 1. Greetings
<needmonero90> Anyone else here this fine day? :D
<needmonero90> that makes 5! That is more than three
<needmonero90> 2. Community highlights
<needmonero90> See Monero weekly highlights at https://revuo-monero.com
<needmonero90> Cake Wallet android was just released.
<needmonero90> Does anyone have community (non-workgroup) updates to share?
<needmonero90> didnt mean to send all that at once
<asymptotically> belated greetings from me :)
<needmonero90> Cake Wallet android was just released! Nice work to the cakewallet team, you're going to be a thorn in my side recommending wallets now. I can't just say monerujo without thinking anymore
<endogenic> mymonero android soon
<needmonero90> yeah but who uses mymonero anyways
<needmonero90> Other than cakewallet, do we have any community updates to share?
<endogenic> needmonero90: a lot of mrl members use it
<endogenic> we dont even have to pay them
<needmonero90> I've been checked out the past week or two due to family and holiday considerations, so I have no updates from the moderation side of things
<rottensox> msvb-mob is here!
<rottensox> k, let's go to point 3 then.
<needmonero90> 3. CCS updates!
<needmonero90> research funding for 2020 Q1 (575.5 / 695 XMR) https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/sarang-2020-q1.html
<needmonero90> The MRL are the grease that keeps our wheels turning, without them we would rapidly grind to a halt
<needmonero90> If you're reading this, and want to contribute to Monero, the MRL is one of the biggest impact things you can donate to
<needmonero90> Don't think, just do
<needmonero90> 3 months part time work on Getmonero.org (5.3 / 174 XMR)
<needmonero90> I don't have the link handy atm
<needmonero90> Who is this for, rehrar?
<rottensox> ErCiccione[m], i reckon.
<needmonero90> Great, thank you
<rehrar> fund both
<needmonero90> The getmonero website is the portal to the hearts and minds of the masses, and if it isn't pretty and functional, we're going to lose people before they've even started
<needmonero90> Not everyone is a power user who can spend hours diving for the data they need, erciccione is doing valuable work too :)
<needmonero90> Also localization, that's big too
<needmonero90> Any other CCS comments before moving on?
<SerHack> Anyone who contributes to Monero and its community is doing valuable work.
<needmonero90> Okay, moving on!
<needmonero90> 4. Workgroup report
<needmonero90> a. Daemon/CLI workgroup
<needmonero90> There were some new networking developments and discussions about how to better communicate between the daemon/wallet and an anonymity network
<needmonero90> I presume this is in reference to a swappable layer like tor or i2p
<needmonero90> Would certainly make things easier
<needmonero90> Anyone here who participated in that discussion?
* needmonero90 may be going too quickly
<needmonero90> Is this too fast?
<rehrar> nobody typically responds to anything anyways
<ArticMine> No it is fine
<rottensox> just keep on going.
<rottensox> these meetings are pretty much a refreshing stance of things…
<midipoet> are we done yet?
<needmonero90> Yep, still, I don't want a recorded log of my incompetence :)
<rottensox> no lol.
<midipoet> so slow
<rottensox> you're a sweetheart cutie needmonero90.
<rottensox> lol midipoet.
<needmonero90> b. Localization workgroup
<needmonero90> ErCiccione any update?
<needmonero90> I assume he isn't present
<rehrar> don't think he's here today. Didn't even comment on his CCS proposal when up for "discussion"
<needmonero90> Due to the previous ping
<rehrar> Sorry. I'm trying to act like a typical peanut gallery to give you the real experience needmoney90
<needmonero90> c. GUI workgroup
<needmonero90> There was a point release (no binaries yet for the newbs) https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/releases/tag/v0.15.0.3
<rehrar> yeah, I saw that the other day
<needmonero90> Wen binaries
<selsta> no idea
<needmonero90> What got fixed and added?
<needmonero90> I assume just fixed
* needmonero90 waits a bit
<selsta> See the release notes, mostly bug fixes and a new blur effect when the wallet it locked.
<selsta> Also there were crashes which are now fixed.
<rehrar> blur effects
<rehrar> it also says that the sidebar was redone?
<needmonero90> Blur effects are big
<needmonero90> Game changer
<rottensox> stealth mode.
<sgp_> We need a better name for blur effects. Something easier to shill
<rottensox> invisible mode.
<needmonero90> Oh you're back
<selsta> anyway no ETA for bins
<sgp_> Kinda, on mobile
<selsta> can be weeks if there will be any lol
<monerobux> Two weeks™
<selsta> (not xiphon’s fault, he had bins ready almost 2 weeks ago)
<rehrar> selsta, you're the new binary guy?
<rehrar> oh. So what are we waiting on?
<rehrar> bf to sign and someone to put on the site?
<rehrar> who are we waiting on right now?
<selsta> core team can comment on this if they want
<selsta> Snipa will do builds going forward
<selsta> but he has no env yet
<selsta> so no ETA
<needmonero90> Alright, time to move on?
<needmonero90> d. Outreach workgroup
<needmonero90> The RPC-Pay and Chinese perspective articles are nearly ready to go
<needmonero90> OK, is anyone from outreach here?
<rottensox> xmrhaelan is usually around too, but seem like they're idle…
<thunderosa> Yes, we're putting the final touches on both.
<rottensox> there ya go.
<needmonero90> What are the articles on? Specifically the second one
<thunderosa> The plan is to drop the Chinese piece tomorrow am….TBD on the RPC-Pay piece,…we were looking at putting press support on that one.
<needmonero90> OK! Looking forward to reading them when they come out.
<thunderosa> Hey sorry,…didn't catch that it was a meeting
<thunderosa> So Chinese Persepective piece, Chinese author:
<thunderosa> We're wanting to publish both languages at once,…so we're getting our Chinese side in shape.
<thunderosa> We'd especially like critical feedback on the RPC-Pay piece.
<thunderosa> There's more technical content in that one and we want to make sure we're accurate in all things.
<needmonero90> I'll take a look after the meeting
<selsta> moo should read he RPC pay article
<needmonero90> Is that it for outreach updates?
<thunderosa> Ah shit there's a whole bunch of stuff,…but I'm really not prepared :)
<needmonero90> That's fine!
<rehrar> just type a thi8ng or two
<thunderosa> We're working on implementing the RPC-Pay stuff,…using Primo and using that to incentivize contributors
<thunderosa> Basically a straight up rev share for anyone who makes cool stuff
<thunderosa> I'll have a better report in a few weeks,…but that's the big push right now.
<needmonero90> Primo is the hashing micropayment system right?
<thunderosa> Thinking that the community calendar and merhcant directory could also reward it's contributors and maintainers.
<thunderosa> it's an Apache module
<thunderosa> We're getting out node up and then we're going to plug that baby in
<thunderosa> and see if it s works like we think it might
<needmonero90> So it's in beta atm?
<thunderosa> By next week we should have a proof on concept,..it's involving a server migration and stuff so that's bogging things down a bit. But the other side is looking good.
<sgp_> Can someone make an aggregate RPC-Pay program where payments can be allocated to a user ID that's registered with the system? Is that possible?
<thunderosa> Pre-beta :)
<thunderosa> Yeah, that's the idea,..we're data based in our content
<thunderosa> and the CRM can track the traffic share with no problem
<sgp_> Then it effectively serves as a mining pool. Very cool thunderosa
<thunderosa> and any author can claim their share or donate it to a workgroup or devs or whatever
<thunderosa> kinda,..I hadn't thought of it that way,…but you're right,…it's a content mining pool
<rottensox> fun stuff.
<thunderosa> if it works,..I thought MoneroMemes could try it out too
<thunderosa> I'll be setting up a repo in the next few weeks,…it'll all be there.
<thunderosa> seems like we're doing other stuff too,..but that's the big unifying thing right now and all I got for an update :)
<needmonero90> Alright great, onwards!
<needmonero90> The 36c3 was a success in many ways, attracting large crowds. All talks were streamed here: https://youtube.com/c/monerocommunityworkgroup
<monerobux> [ Monero Community Workgroup - YouTube ] - youtube.com
<rottensox> i thought it was hardware next…
<xmrhaelan> I came on to find hyc and saw this. Thanks Thunderosa!
<needmonero90> That's f
<needmonero90> In my list
<rottensox> lol. alrite.
<needmonero90> E is 36c3 unless sgp_ linked the wrong text
<needmonero90> To me
<midipoet> what stops primo from being deployed maliciously (sorry if stupid question)
<needmonero90> How was 36c3?
<kinghat> finally made it through all the talks. now i need to go back and watch the defcon talks. is there an official playlist or just the one sgp_ put together?
<needmonero90> Oh back up
<sgp_> I made the notes in haste, sorry
<ajs> 54 talks, 21 hours of content
<sgp_> kinghat: the events were recorded locally but need to be sliced
<needmonero90> Sorry midipoet, I moved too quickly
<sgp_> I offered to slice them if I get the raw files
<sgp_> But I don't have them
<midipoet> no, that's ok… continue on. just processing the primo / RPC-Pay info
<sgp_> kinghat: for Defcon, use the official Decfoncobference YouTube channel playlist
<kinghat> this was the playlist i bookmarked: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsSYUeVwrHBm0oAEyRxZIMFxCwNNmybBH
<monerobux> [ Defcon 2019 - YouTube ] - www.youtube.com
<needmonero90> That mobile keyboard
<monerobux> [ DEF CON 27 Monero Village - YouTube ] - www.youtube.com
<sgp_> Use that one
<needmonero90> I have yet to see any of the c3 talks
<rottensox> needmonero90: highly recommend first day, thoroughly.
<rottensox> was a great one.
<needmonero90> Any specifics?
<rottensox> all to be honest, but closing keynote by daniel was outstanding.
<rottensox> bummed he didn't finish all the slides…
<rottensox> 2nd day i just caught the last two talks, and they were good as well.
<rottensox> the rest i haven't watched.
<kinghat> sgp_: are these not "sliced up" or ami missing something?
<rottensox> too much content to catch up with.
<needmonero90> Story of my life, rotten
<kinghat> just give your life an RSS
<rottensox> i am the man of rss feeds sir.
<rottensox> okokok we're digressing.
<rottensox> what's next?
<rottensox> needmonero90: these two from day 2, were good. https://frab.riat.at/en/36C3/public/events/123.html https://frab.riat.at/en/36C3/public/events/163.html
<ajs> locally recorded video will be sliced into individual presentations and uploaded to ccc media server. no word on ETA.
<rottensox> as i said, the two closing talks of day 2.
<rottensox> ajs based. thank you very much for the livestream and a/v stuff. don't think these events would be as great if it weren't because of you.
<rottensox> round of applauses for papa ajs.
<rottensox> nm90 went mia? lol.
<needmonero90> stepped away from my keyboard for a moment
<ajs> thanks, but most of the hard work was done by a pro videographer and sound sound engineer that helped out
<rottensox> nice, glad to hear that.
<needmonero90> so, msvb-mob msvb-lab you there?
<needmonero90> f. Hardware workgroup
<msvb-mob> The hardware team reports late stage beta mechanical engineering, where FDM prin
<msvb-mob> ts of a enclosure are finished and injection moulding design as well.
<msvb-mob> In parallel, work is in mid stage (about a month left) of product development and packaged documentation.
<msvb-mob> That's all, remember there is a #monero-hardware channel for questions and answe
<msvb-mob> rs. Any questions on mechanical engineering or product development?
<rottensox> msvb-mob: how are the things looking like for the dev kit of kastelo, sir?
<rottensox> msvb-mob: are you alright? i was bummed when you didn't show up for your 36c3 talk. :(
<msvb-mob> rottensox: Good, we're in product development which includes a lot of boring things like country of origin, taxes, certificates, exceptions, and logistics.
<msvb-mob> That's in product development, I mean.
<rottensox> oof, all the paperwork… can only imagine.
<rottensox> thanks for doing that though.
<msvb-mob> My 36C3 talk was not accepted, unfortunately.
<rottensox> oh, i see.
<msvb-mob> Any questions regarding the stages of hardware engineering we are in now?
<rehrar> Your talk at the CDC was accepted and you were on the schedule.
<msvb-mob> rehrar: I mean it was not accepted to me, no acceptance message of any kind.
<rehrar> Ah, I see.
<needmonero90> so the hardware workgroup is currently working on what? kastello, badges for defcon?
<needmonero90> any other neat projects in the works?
<msvb-mob> needmonero90: Right now no badges (except outside of the Monero Community.) Just Kastelo.
<ArticMine> You had to log into frab.riat.at and check
<msvb-mob> needmonero90: Other projects are outside Monero scope, so nothing to report.
<msvb-mob> ArticMine: My proposal was erased from frab.
<msvb-mob> It was probably rejected, but I never received a rejection message either.
<ArticMine> Before or after the talk time?
<msvb-mob> needmonero90: Konferenco is next.
<rottensox> yeah… let's move on, shall we?
<rottensox> none of what we say we'll roll back time and make it happen.
<needmonero90> g. Konferenco workgroup
<needmonero90> progress is slow and ongoing
<msvb-mob> First, remember that there is a #monero-konferenco channel for detailed conversa
<needmonero90> I haven't been involved in the conversation, I need to tune in
<msvb-mob> Scouting venues for the Konferenco 2020 has mostly concluded, and the results are reported in project management task number 40.
* rottensox clicks
<msvb-mob> A lot of details are not public, like the exact prices and conditions for each venue. This information is offered to the person who takes the boss role, CEO or whatever.
<rehrar> Are these details not public at the request of the venues?
<msvb-mob> Including many megaoctets (giga?) of photos and media.
<needmonero90> None require catering, right?
<msvb-mob> rehrar: Other way around, to publish details I need to get permission from about twenty people who are sometimes responsive only after three weeks of repetition emails.
<msvb-mob> needmonero90: I think only one venue requires in house catering, let me try to find out which one…
<rehrar> Ah, you are taking the stance of privacy first unless given permission to share these details by the venues
<needmonero90> private by default is the monero way
<msvb-mob> Kulturbrauerei requires in house catering, like about 4500 EUR of costs.
<rehrar> yes, but if they didn't request this info be private, then it hinders the planning to not share imo
<rehrar> I'm certain that anyone else who would make a request would get prices and stuff all the same
<needmonero90> its a courtesy thing, this is their business model
<rehrar> I see.
<msvb-mob> rehrar: I assume that nobody will offer to lead the project and that there will be no Konferenco 2020 for that reason. As soon as a boss appears, they can choose to publish all the nonpublic information (at great risk to our common future of course.)
<needmonero90> Either that or we decide on bounds for pricing and capacity, and trust the organizer to optimize for venue
<msvb-mob> I really don't think there will be a Konferenco 2020, but I'm going to keep distilling and perfecting our venue scouting information until a final report as well as party place and accommodation hotel is clearly chosen.
<rehrar> In the event that nobody offers to lead the project for Europe, I and potentially others will make an attempt to make it happen in the USA or Mexico. :)
<needmonero90> if rehrar is in, he's gonna rope me into it to
<rehrar> EU peeps step up plz. ;)
<msvb-mob> rehrar: Do you have a strategy for not waiting too long (for a European leader to appear) so that a north american event is not too late in planning and therefore cancelled as well?
<rehrar> Wait until end of Q1
<kinghat> msvb-mob: maybe you could do some version of your talk in an upcoming coffee chat?
<rehrar> if nothing, plan for Q3 or Q4.
<msvb-mob> kinghat: I'm already scheduled to do the same talk at Disobey 2020 and FOSDEM.
<binaryFate> shit schoolboy mistake with time, missed meeting
<rehrar> Even if nobody steps up for this year, all the info you've gathered is still valuable msvb-mob. It can be available for whoever wants to run one in Europe in later years.
<kinghat> very cool msvb-mob 👍
<msvb-mob> rehrar: Sounds good, the schedule method. To not wait too long.
<msvb-mob> needmonero90: Next topic?
<needmonero90> 5. Open ideas time
<needmonero90> It’s open ideas time! Feel free to propose your ideas to this discussion group, and feel free to comment on others’ ideas. If you disagree with the idea, please reply with constructive criticism. Thank you!
<msvb-mob> …or does ajs have any reporting on Konferenco, as he has done a lot of work as well?
<needmonero90> we're running a bit over, so I think we can skip this part
<msvb-mob> binaryFate: You're fired.
<binaryFate> I can comment on GUI builds after meeting is over if anyone is interested
<needmonero90> 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
<needmonero90> The next community meeting will be in 2 weeks on 18 January at 17:00 UTC.
<needmonero90> The next Coffee Chat is on Saturday January 11 at 17:00 UTC. sgp_ will not be present, so he will need someone else to host. Please DM him if you can help, it will probably end up being rehrar or myself.
<ajs> I've made some a/v inquiries and set up a telegram group at https://t.me/joinchat/PmC9ihaLP0UZF-bfkD36CA
* needmonero90 waits for the konferenco discussion to finish
<needmonero90> sorry, I keep moving on and then people come back :)
<rehrar> I always do this
<ajs> to continue talk on konferenco, pop in #monero-konferenco or the telegram group
<needmonero90> thanks :)
<rottensox> <msvb-mob> kinghat: I'm already scheduled to do the same talk at Disobey 2020 and FOSDEM.
<rottensox> wow, do link us to such talks when they get posted on their respective schedules, please.
<rottensox> will gladly tune in the livestream or recorded individual links.
<needmonero90> ok guys, meeting is running 15m over :)
<needmonero90> I think that covers most of it, we can finish the rest of the discussion afterwards.
<needmonero90> I need to get food
<sgp_> Thanks so much needmonero90!
<needmonero90> 7. Conclusion
<needmonero90> That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, and know that change starts with YOU.