Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2019-10-26
October 26, 2019
Logs
<sgp_> Meeting time
<sgp_> 0. Introduction
<sgp_> We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Workgroup Meeting!
<sgp_> Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/405
<sgp_> Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support. Fun fact: you are awesome :)
<sgp_> 1. Greetings
<el00ruobuob_[m]> Hello!
<sgp_> ping dEBRUYNE rehrar ErCiccione[m] xmrscott[m]
<ErCiccione[m]> Hi all. Thanks for the ping sgp_
<sgp_> needmonero90 dsc_ gingeropolous sarang
<gingeropolous> yo
<sgp_> hopefully more people pour in later
<sgp_> 2. Community highlights
<sgp_> See Monero weekly highlights at https://revuo-monero.com
<sgp_> Reminder that 0.15 is expected on October 31, with the scheduled protocol upgrade on November 30: https://getmonero.org/2019/10/01/announcement-release-0-15.html
<needmonero90> Oh, right, meetings are a thing on Saturdays
<sgp_> The code is frozen! Get testing!
<sgp_> We tried out a gaming session two weeks ago, and we had our coffee chat last week which was excellent despite technical challenges.
<sgp_> Are there any outstanding questions regarding the upcoming update, or does anyone have community (non-workgroup) updates to share?
<needmonero90> Last coffee chat was packed
<needmonero90> We need that more
<sgp_> super stacked lineup indeed :)
<msvb-mob> Hello.
<needmonero90> I expect you're going to link your poll soon enough, so I'll hold off
<sgp_> yup :)
<sgp_> needmonero90: can you create that update thread for exchanges in r/xmrtrader?
<needmonero90> Will do during this meeting.
<sgp_> excellent
<thunderosa> I guess it's a community update. The new Monero Pool UI is coming out in the next few days. Half the size, twice the speed, new features etc.
<sgp_> did someone else volunteer for the mining pool list for r/moneromining? I don't recall if I signed up for that
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> Hey. I'm in Mexico right now.
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> Won't be back home for a few hours.
<needmonero90> Okay amigo
<sgp_> thunderosa: very cool
<rottensox> what i miss.
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> Left a comment on the meta issue of the meeting.
<sgp_> rehrar: yes, I added a section to discuss :)
<sgp_> let's proceed
<sgp_> 3. CCS updates
<sgp_> Funding required:'
<sgp_> Rehrar to 36C3 (4.42 / 58.65) https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/rehrar-36c3-expenses.html
<sgp_> Multiple features and fixes for getmonero.org: https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/ErCiccione-website.html
<sgp_> Ziphon’s request was overfunded! https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/xiphon-part-time-2.html
<sgp_> *xiphon
<sgp_> Ideas (to be discussed):
<sgp_> WIP: Norwegian translation (3 XMR): https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/merge_requests/102, and
<sgp_> moneromooo, from November 2019 (395 XMR): https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/merge_requests/103
<needmonero90> Xiphon*
<needmonero90> Oh you corrected my nad
<needmonero90> Bad
<sgp_> any comments? or shall I take the silence as approval?
<needmonero90> My silence is approval on everything other than the rehrar funding proposal, which has its own issues that have been discussed
<needmonero90> Not sure if it's resolved, but I'll take it to back channels first
<needmonero90> (issues meaning the speed at which it was merged, potential for alternatives with lower travel fees, etc)
<sgp_> sure, it's already been moved, so that complicates things a bit
<el00ruobuob_[m]> i silently approve moneromooo, looking into the Norwegian.
<sgp_> did you hope that it would be discussed during a meeting first needmonero90?
<needmonero90> I can't recall where the conversation is at, so I don't want to cover old ground
<ErCiccione> I suggested the guy for Norwegian to open the CCS and make the post on reddit, but i also asked to write references for his work. So, i'm waiting for those before i express my vote on that
<needmonero90> Just wanted to express in meeting that that particular proposal is a thorny issue
<sgp_> all right. it was officially open for 4 days
<needmonero90> Not long enough or with enough discussion imo
<sgp_> thanks ErCiccione. fwiw I find the asking amount for that proposal pretty reasonable
<ErCiccione> sgp_: I agree on that.
<sgp_> Any other CCS comments before we move on?
<needmonero90> none here
<sgp_> 4. Workgroup report
<sgp_> a. Daemon/CLI workgroup
<sgp_> Code freeze. All the things happened.
<needmonero90> I was confused when I saw a reddit thread about getting translations done *before* the freeze (maybe I misread)
<sgp_> most notably the pay-by-hash for remote node use PR
<needmonero90> which didnt make sense, I thought translations and stuff were ideal after the freeze
<sgp_> needmonero90: my understanding is that there are essentially two freezes, so it depends on which one you call the "freeze." ErCiccione would be able to explain more though
<needmonero90> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/dlxyiu/monero_translators_we_need_you_to_make_one_final/
<monerobux> [REDDIT] Monero translators, we need you to make one final sprint! The code freeze is imminent. (self.Monero) | 112 points (99.0%) | 15 comments | Posted by ErCiccione | Created at 2019-10-23 - 11:33:44
<needmonero90> ah, okay
<ErCiccione> needmonero90: translations and stuff were ideal after the freeze <- They are, but for this release the GUI has been ready for some time, with no strings added
<needmonero90> I thought code freeze meant the codebase was in a state where bugfixes and text data would be updated
<needmonero90> or, thats the ideal place
<ErCiccione> if there are no new strings we can start a bit earlier
<needmonero90> im curious when the deadlines are for translation work
<ErCiccione> the deadline was yesterday for CLI and today for GUI
<xmrscott[m]> They've both come to pass
<needmonero90> ah, so no translations in this release
<needmonero90> no more*
<sgp_> there were two weblate PRs I think
<sgp_> This brings up to b. Localization workgroup anyway
<sgp_> *us
<ErCiccione> needmonero90: weblate is open, if people keep translating (and approving strings), we can open another PR. But that never happens
<ErCiccione> well, it's open for the CLI. GUI is locked because i pushed the translations today and they have to be merged before i unlock it
<sgp_> code freeze* *except for optimistic translations
<ErCiccione> yeah
<hyc> code freeze: no more code changes besides bugfixes
<hyc> text changes, doc changes - probably still fair game
<needmonero90> thats what I thought from past projects I've interacted with
<sgp_> Can we take a step back and let us know how how the localization process happened this time ErCiccione? Or any other contributor
<ErCiccione> the thing is.We never had a proper code freeze, so i was usually waiting until all the features were in and then ask translators to translate,
<ErCiccione> now with an actual code freeze and release week after, we had to do things a bit earlier
<ErCiccione> sgp_: sure
<ErCiccione> Weblate was open since i announced it. There was few activity until my last calls for translators on reddit and twitter. I gave as a deadline the day of the beginning of the code freeze. merged those, translators can keep translate,
<ErCiccione> and if there are enough strings translated i PR them to the repo (GUI or CLI) when it's possible to do so
<sgp_> Do people like using weblate?
<ErCiccione> As far as i can see, they seem to love it
<ErCiccione> and i agree
<ErCiccione> after the release we will use it for the website as well, i don't know if i already said that
<xmrscott[m]> Very much so
<sgp_> thanks
<xmrscott[m]> Grammatical checks and similar strings os incredibly powerful, and you don't need to find your own locally run client for those features, all browser based
<sgp_> I'm glad people like the system. It will help make translations more approachable to people who want to help
<xmrscott[m]> We should add MyMonero app at some point too
<ErCiccione> xmrscott: today i added some more QT specific checks, should be even more accurate now
<xmrscott[m]> And as an aside to highlight how amazing it is, when I got the OpenWrt to start using it they described it as very addictive :)
<ErCiccione> about the workflow: i'm roughly using the "continuous translations" system weblate suggests https://docs.weblate.org/en/weblate-2.8/admin/continuous.html
<xmrscott[m]> My person favorite feature is the ability to get new emails when new strings are added
<ErCiccione> yeah the notification system can be personalized a lot
<sgp_> Any other localization comments?
<el00ruobuob_[m]> i just saw that, that's great!
<sgp_> c. GUI workgroup
<sgp_> GUI code freeze is today. i2p support will come in a later point release unfortunately
<sgp_> the complexity of the code took a toll on some contributors who need more time to make it happen
<sgp_> related note: dsc has been teasing a new non-core GUI that he made on the side
<sgp_> Any questions? I'll do my best to answer
<rottensox> na. move on.
<needmonero90> I believe there was some discussion on renaming the GUI?
<needmonero90> idk where that went
<needmonero90> some people thought "Monero GUI" was too clinical/technical, and wanted something "warmer" for new users (my words)
<sgp_> needmonero90: I'm going to table that discussion for this meeting, but here is the relevant naming discussion that xmrscott[m] is championing: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/384
<thunderosa> I'll just chime in with wanting to banish anything "graphical interface" because the public has never seen a non-graphical interface.
<needmonero90> wasn't trying to discuss it, just find the discussion point :)
<thunderosa> It's inside reality vs outside reality.
<sgp_> no problem, thanks for mentioning
<sgp_> is sarang free to do a quick MRL update?
<sgp_> d. Monero Research Lab
<sgp_> Surae made significant progress on his matching code, with preliminary results now available for validation. Sarang did some hard moon math. Their meeting logs are on Github under meta.
<sgp_> We also discussed subaddress association (and the related Janus attack). See this article and the accompanying Breaking Monero episode: https://getmonero.org/2019/10/18/subaddress-janus.html
<sgp_> if there are no other comments or questions, we can move on to 5
<sgp_> 5. Monero 0.15 release name
<sgp_> We need to pick a release name. To assist this, I’ve solicited feedback informally in this ranked-choice poll: https://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/vote.pl?id=E_e228920d8a4d1cec&akey=ebaf2172a4c2dcc9
<sgp_> Results:
<sgp_> 1. Carbon Callisto
<sgp_> 2. Carbon Comet
<sgp_> 3. Carbon Crab
<sgp_> 4. Carbon Chamaeleon (or Chameleon)
<sgp_> 5. Carbon Cosmos
<sgp_> at this point we really need to pick a name, fast
<needmonero90> I'll do a quick Telegram poll
<thunderosa> Callisto is already the name of a crypto-project. Comet or Cosmos are both strong
<needmonero90> speaking of projects with the same name, cosmos?
<needmonero90> lol
<sgp_> I shared this on Telegram too needmonero90, but other feedback is welcome. You can point them to the same link if you like. I can keep it up for the rest of the day
<thunderosa> well, it's a little more universal I guess
<darkaleph> callisto is a little on the nose as well
<rottensox> Carbon Comet is a winner.
<needmonero90> crab too :(
<sgp_> I'm fine with all 5 of those choices honestly
<needmonero90> though lots of elements have a C, so
<sgp_> crab is probably my least favorite though
<hyc> I dislike COmmet / Consetllation /whatever as too generic
<thunderosa> yeah, crab = bad
<needmonero90> D:<
<needmonero90> how dare you
<needmonero90> I'll fork off
<hyc> the name should be a specific celestial body, not a general type of object
<sgp_> lol sorry :p
<needmonero90> crab nebula*
<needmonero90> btw
<sgp_> "MASSIVE Monero naming dispute"
<hyc> So Callisto, Crab, Chamaeleon are the only proper nouns in this selection
<thunderosa> Cassiopeia
<el00ruobuob_[m]> Luna wasn't a specific celestial body hyc
<hyc> yes it is Luna is a proper name for the earth's moon
<sgp_> hyc: I interpret the naming convention a little more loosely, so I'm ok with any of these if they make sense
<sgp_> in some ways, the simplicity is a strength
<rottensox> luna is moon in Spanish
<rottensox> yeah, i'll see myself out.
<rottensox> Carbon Comet dammit.
<sarang> Sorry I stepped away for a moment
<needmonero90> \o/
<needmonero90> welcome back
<sgp_> Carbon Callisto is both simple and unique enough that it's a reasonable compromise imo
<sarang> Hit a bump in a soundness proof
<sarang> I'm working on alternate approaches
<needmonero90> sgp_: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/callisto-network/
<thunderosa> Yeah, and it's a bullshit coin too.
<needmonero90> at rank 694 we'd trounce their SEO, so its nbd
<sgp_> yeah I'm not too concerned about that :p
<needmonero90> after looking at it, I think using Callisto isn't a problem, even though its another crypto project
<needmonero90> my concerns are gone now
<needmonero90> https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/cosmos/
<needmonero90> that tho
<needmonero90> cosmos is out
<sgp_> yeah, probably not the best idea
<el00ruobuob_[m]> Carbon Crommelin Comet, abreviated in Carbon Comet ?
<el00ruobuob_[m]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/27P/Crommelin
<monerobux> [WIKIPEDIA] 27P/Crommelin | "Comet Crommelin, also known as Comet Pons-Coggia-Winnecke-Forbes, is a periodic comet with an orbital period of almost 28 years. It fits the classical definition of a Halley-type comet with (20 years < period < 200 years). It is named after the British astronomer Andrew C. D. Crommelin who calculated…"
<sgp_> Does anyone hate Carbon Callisto?
<needmonero90> the name doesnt conjure up strong feelings of space in my mind
<hyc> I'm ok with Callisto
<needmonero90> but I'm indifferent
<sgp_> two voters who actually ranked everything in the poll rated it pretty low
<thunderosa> I've got a bad association, but it's probably personal…I'm ok.
<sgp_> but for most people, it was the top 1-4 choices
<hyc> well, I recognize it as a moon of Jupiter so that works for me. but not much in love with it
<needmonero90> if we go with Comet, I can see some retro cleaning product advertisement pushes by outreach
<hyc> Chamaeleon is still my #1. multiple people pointed out its self-changing nature
<needmonero90> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3c/34/2b/3c342b122549bade835eaa0fcdc906f2.jpg
<needmonero90> "with ring signatures"
<thunderosa> yeah, chamaleon is a decent choice,…it has some personality
<ErCiccione> i like Callisto
<sgp_> The Chamaeleon / Chameleon similarities is a small weakness imo. Would be better if they were spelled the same way
<needmonero90> I have a solution
<sgp_> lol @ comet ad needmonero90
<needmonero90> lets call it Carbon Chamæleon
<sgp_> lol
<needmonero90> fixes all the issues :D
<hyc> ok with me. alternate spellings, easier spelling, whatever
<thunderosa> +1 Carbon Chamaleon (or however it's spelled)
<sgp_> well, hopefully this helps Core in some way make a decision :)
<needmonero90> lets table the bikeshedding, debruyne and I will figure out a reddit thread and stuff
<darkaleph> chameleon is better then callisto but if you want heavenly bodies with a nod to rings then Cassini is cool
<sgp_> we should move on to the final main topic
<needmonero90> nah, move back sgp
<needmonero90> sarang is here now
<sgp_> sure, sarang do you have a quick summary?
<needmonero90> maybe he's afk again :(
<sgp_> lol
<sgp_> he can take the stage if he comes back
<sgp_> 6. Extracurricular activities
<sgp_> Rehrar asked to reserve some time for extracurricular activities. Fun things that we can do to help foster the community.
<sgp_> We tried a gaming session that was a good start, but it wasn't too fun for viewers
<sgp_> We still have some room to test things out there I think
<sgp_> I recently paid for a premium Kahoot subscription for r/cryptocurrency, so we can use that for fun quizzes if we want
<sgp_> but ultimately, what activites would be useful to help bond the community together? what would you like to see the Monero community do?
<rottensox> videogames, sports, even board games tournaments. put together by the community for the community and its users…
<sgp_> board games are cool, but they're a little difficult to play online
<rottensox> livestreaming community members playing a videogame won't do much.
<hyc> this community isn't collected together because of gaming
<sgp_> we probably need an announcer for the games
<sgp_> hyc: of course not, but we're looking for other excuses to do things
<rottensox> well, I precisely said board games to do them face to face…
<rottensox> gaming can help others understand a truckload of things. through gaming you can achieve many things…
<thunderosa> I don't really like it, but gambling type stuff has been popular. Maybe that could be made to be more interactive or team-based or something.
<rottensox> there's a lot of room for us to grow. ruling out games be it videogames, board games, sports or anything you can think of is very short-sighted.
<hyc> sure. maybe you can try putting together an educational game about monero, money, finance…
<sgp_> cooperative minko lol
<rottensox> a little guy created moneropoly…
<sgp_> I wonder if that could somehow be done as a giveaway instead of gambling like it was done at Defcon
<rottensox> a tournament of moneropoly? :-)
<sgp_> but I wonder how much appeal that has
<el00ruobuob_[m]> i'm in for a moneropolly tournament
<rottensox> a set of cards whose arts are xmr-related?
<thunderosa> monopoly actually kinda words online,..more than most other games at least
<rottensox> see? there we go. interest spiking.
<needmonero90> hyc: corporations aren't collected together because of golf, but its still a fantastic excuse to do something outside of a business context in a more casual situation
<rottensox> thunderosa: you have not played moneropoly, have you?
<needmonero90> for example.
<thunderosa> no, I saw the post and thought it was a cool. I'm a Monopoly hound from way back.
<sgp_> A Monero-themed cards against humanity could maybe work, but I think the websites that support custom cards are really dated
<hyc> you could do moneropoly with live wallets
<hyc> on testnet coins
<needmonero90> finally my testnet hoard will be useful
<sarang> Gah, i am back!
<thunderosa> well, just a $1 buy-in to play,….the pot gets split somehow with the winner and the house
<sarang> Multitasking is failing me
<thunderosa> goes to the fund or something
<sgp_> Can we somehow make "Game of Whales" work? Somehow related to Game of Thrones
<needmonero90> more like unitasking
<needmonero90> sarang whats the summary?
<rottensox> outreach and rehrar can help these idea pan out?
<needmonero90> sgp_: Lets discuss game stuff unlogged after-meeting :)
<sarang> I have been hard at work on a new transaction protocol
<rottensox> s/idea/ideas
<monerobux> rottensox meant to say: outreach and rehrar can help these ideas pan out?
<sgp_> sure needmonero90. good to get some ideas rolling while people are paying attention
<sarang> A really cool multi input version works but the soundness proof does not
<sarang> A single input version does have proofs that are working
<sarang> But I would love to get the former proven properly
<sarang> It's so close
<sarang> I have a full writeup to share at Mondays meeting
<needmonero90> anything happening on the other protocol fronts?
<needmonero90> Halo, RCT3, lelantus?
<needmonero90> or are those same as before
<sarang> I want to backport some RCT3 stuff for efficiency comparisons
<sarang> Nothing new on Omniring given its batch limitations
<sarang> The RCT3 stuff was on hold due to this new protocol
<sarang> So much math to do!
<rottensox> sounds right up your alley though.
<sgp_> Thanks sarang!
<sgp_> Any final comments before we wrap up the meeting?
<sgp_> Thanks for joining everyone
<sgp_> (skipping 7. open ideas time)
<el00ruobuob_[m]> thank you!
<msvb-mob> Thanks sgp_, good meeting.
<sgp_> 8. Confirm next meeting date/time
<sgp_> The next community meeting will be in 2 weeks on 9 November at 17:00 UTC. Note a possible regional time change! The next Coffee Chat will be on 16 November at 16:00 UTC, but we may change the format. Stay tuned for more details.
<sgp_> 9. Conclusion
<sgp_> That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, and know that change starts with YOU.
Post tags : Dev Diaries, Cryptography