June 06, 2020
<sgp_> 0. Introduction
<sgp_> We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Workgroup Meeting!
<sgp_> Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/471
<sgp_> Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
<sgp_> 1. Greetings
<ErCiccione> Hi folks
<sgp_> ping needbrrrrrrr90 sarang
<sgp_> hello everyone :)
<sgp_> 2. Community highlights
<sgp_> See Monero weekly highlights at https://revuo-monero.com
<sgp_> Check out resources at https://communityworkgroup.org. It also has a calendar you can subscribe to for meeting reminders.
<sgp_> We now have a Twitter! https://twitter.com/xmrcommunity
<sgp_> If we have time during open ideas time, please comment on what you want to use it for.
<sgp_> Diego spoke about Monero at the Messari’s Mainnet 2020 conference. Hopefully they eventually distribute a recording.
<sgp_> Does anyone have community (non-workgroup) updates to share?
<sgp_> 3. CCS updates
<sgp_> Funding required:
<sgp_> Norwegian translation of webplate, footers, nav. Menu (1.16 / 6 XMR) https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/Norwegian_translation_core.html
<sgp_> Research post-quantum strategies for Monero (550.06 / 576 XMR) https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/research-post-quantum-monero.html
<sgp_> Ideas (to be discussed):
<sgp_> Swedish cli wallet (3 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/147
<sgp_> dEBRUYNE and ErCiccione[m] commented on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/gtjd6g/ccs_proposal_lets_add_support_for_swedish_in_to/
<monerobux> [REDDIT] [CCS Proposal] Lets add support for swedish in to monero cli wallet (self.Monero) | 21 points (82.0%) | 5 comments | Posted by writesofrust | Created at 2020-05-30 - 18:43:13
<sgp_> no comments on this one?
<binaryFate> I don't see much value either, but don't see a reason not to pass it on to funding required
<binaryFate> donors can decide
<binaryFate> 3 XMR is very small, maybe it is a good test run of the CCS system by that person if nothing else
<sgp_> is the gui and website already translated?
<ErCiccione> Not a big fan of that proposal. We don't even know about past experiences as translator and the proposal itself seems quite lazily written
<ErCiccione> let me check that
<sgp_> if they have no past contributions, I think that's a reason to not advance
<ErCiccione> We don't have the website in swedish. We have the GUI, which is almost fully translated
<ErCiccione> i'm fine with people not having past experience with monero if they show some credentials
<sgp_> did they show any?
<ErCiccione> To my knowledge, no.
<ErCiccione> but we didn't ask either
<sgp_> I guess the proposal is on hold then until that is resolved
<sgp_> final comments on this one?
<sgp_> second one:
<sgp_> Sarang: research funding for 2020 Q3 (492 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/148
<sarang> I'll revisit the amount prior to opening (if this is decided)
<sgp_> I highly doubt anyone will comment against this one
<binaryFate> go go go!!!
<sarang> Happy to take questions here or as CCS comments
<ErCiccione> I already left a thumb up on the MR
<sgp_> 7 thumbs up now
<sgp_> I think we can proceed since this obviously has universal support
<sarang> I'll check on the amount first
<sgp_> of course
<sarang> So please don't merge just yet
<binaryFate> sarang did you discuss with luigi1111 about the proposed "stable USD amount" buffer?
<sarang> It was briefly mentioned, but not really in any more detail
<binaryFate> Let's discuss and finalize decision before you adapt amount
<binaryFate> (decision might be not to use it, no pressure!)
<sgp_> CLSAG Audit with Teserakt and OSTIF (179 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/150
<sgp_> Teserakt has already done half of the audit on their own decision
<monerobux> Test failed
<sgp_> no comments?
<niocbrrrrrr> !donate [undisclosed_amount]
<niocbrrrrrr> please and thank you
<sgp_> haha nice
<sgp_> Any other CCS comments before we move on?
<sgp_> 4. Workgroup report
<sgp_> is selsta here?
<sgp_> a. Daemon/CLI/GUI workgroup
<sgp_> go ahead :)
<selsta> Will have to think :P
<selsta> v0.16 was a smooth release and with no major problems.
<selsta> I think we can soon prepare v0.17 with CLSAG
<sgp_> selsta: do you have an ideal release date for 0.17? since it will require a hardfork
<ErCiccione> Good job btw. People are super happy with the new GUI and CLI
<selsta> Not yet.
<selsta> I want to release at least 1 month before the hardfork time.
<kinghat[m]> ya the gui is sexy af
<sgp_> do you want it to happen before this fall?
<selsta> I would guess hardfork 2 months after the audit is done but that might be too optimistic.
<sarang> There will need to be Trezor/Ledger support in place from those teams
<sarang> and they'll probably want a testnet to try it out on
<selsta> We have to give exchanges and other wallets enough time to update.
<dEBRUYNE> Bear in mind that CLSAG also requires changes from wallet providers
<dEBRUYNE> Thus, we have to allow for more time arguably
<selsta> We are also thinking about signing the windows and macOS release but that might be a better topic for the dev meeting
<selsta> code certificate signing*
<ErCiccione> yeah. The problem with the antiviruses needs to be at list mitigated somehow. Really bad UX
<selsta> might no not possible to mitigate, but we will see
<kinghat[m]> did one of those hw wallets monero integration get promoted to "full" or "proper" vs just being a side thing?
<selsta> you mean ledger?
<kinghat[m]> im not sure 🤔
<sarang> I'm in contact with the person now in charge of that
<selsta> I did not read from the announcement that they will work on Ledger Live.
<sarang> I do not know any details on that
<selsta> anyway I’m done with the workgroup update
<sgp_> thanks selsta!
<selsta> oh and one more thing
<selsta> google might add monero to their open source fuzzer: https://github.com/google/oss-fuzz/pull/3941
<sarang> IIRC moneromooo has been updating the fuzz tests in the codebase
<selsta> this will help at find bugs in the monero codebase
<selsta> ok done now
<sgp_> b. Localization workgroup
<sgp_> ErCiccione any update?
<ErCiccione> Not much. About 50 people contributed to translate the GUI release
<kinghat[m]> this is what i read: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/gwkmcn/ledger_monero_app_new_lead_dev/
<kinghat[m]> > Why? Until now Monero was still maintained as R&D project by myself. It is now moving in the coin integration team and will reach a new state level. That's as a good news.
<monerobux> [REDDIT] Ledger Monero App: New lead dev! (self.Monero) | 149 points (100.0%) | 38 comments | Posted by cslashm | Created at 2020-06-04 - 16:21:05
<ErCiccione> It's a good number, the highest amount of translators for a release was 60 IIRC, but don't quote me on that
<sarang> kinghat[m]: I've been recently put in touch with the dev who's now in charge of that
<sarang> I've reached out to get information on their required/desired timeline for a network upgrade
<sarang> waiting to hear back
<ErCiccione> also, Weblate is starting to catch up. People are using it every day and we have about 150 people on the platform
<ErCiccione> the activity: https://translate.getmonero.org/#activity
<ErCiccione> beside that, not much to report
<kinghat[m]> sorry for the interruption ErCiccione.
<ErCiccione> no problem :)
<sgp_> glad to hear so many people helped with 0.16
<sgp_> c. Outreach workgroup
<sgp_> Monero Outreach recently shared their “We Accept Monero” campaign: https://www.monerooutreach.org/we-accept-monero.html
<sgp_> d. Website workgroup
<sgp_> lots of cool changes here :)
<ErCiccione> Yeah there is a lot of stuff in progress
<ErCiccione> I posted this on reddit today: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/gxnqmf/lets_improve_the_monero_faq_page_on_getmonero/
<monerobux> [REDDIT] Let's improve the Monero FAQ page on GetMonero. What questions/answers should we add? (self.Monero) | 35 points (95.0%) | 7 comments | Posted by ErCiccione | Created at 2020-06-06 - 09:17:52
<ErCiccione> I think we should improve the FAQ adding as many qestions as possible
<ErCiccione> if anybody has ideas, please post them on reddit or open an issue
<sgp_> SE is definitely a good place to start
<ErCiccione> or write here if you want but there is a higher chance of me forgetting it :P
<ErCiccione> sgp_ i used it when i remade the faq, but now i wanted to add questions that people are asking now
<selsta> I don’t think trying to replace SE with the website FAQ makes sense. (Not sure if that’s the intention)
<ErCiccione> I don't intend to replace SE at all. I just think that the website should be more a point of reference. Because people are more likely to look for answers there
<sgp_> not replacing SE
<selsta> A lot of people google their question and get redirected to SE / Reddit. I doubt that many people will read to a huge FAQ but maybe that’s just my opinion.
<sgp_> this is mostly for media/journalists imo
<midipoet> what's the story with #monero-defcon
<sgp_> better for them to reference the site than SE
<selsta> But a FAQ makes sense in general, yes.
<dEBRUYNE> SE has quite good SEO fwiw
<dEBRUYNE> They will often appear on top for a search
<msvb-mob> midipoet: What do you mean what's the story with #monero-defcon?
<sgp_> SE is good if someone googles a specific question
<sgp_> FAQ is good if someone goes digging
<msvb-mob> midipoet: I see now, let me try to fix that.
<selsta> IMO FAQ is more for general questions about Monero, not too technical things.
<sgp_> yeah agreed
<ErCiccione> selsta: yep, that's my point
<midipoet> msvb-mob: thankyou!
<kayront> question, there was some talk months ago about ring sizes increasing to epic quantities, is that still on the table?
<kayront> (hi everyone!)
<sgp_> kayront: not with clsags
<sgp_> longer term
<ErCiccione> For who is not aware of that. I'm changing the homepage, you are welcome to review and participate to the dicussion: https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/948
<ErCiccione> oh almost forgot
<ErCiccione> We are working on implementing the netlify previews on getmonero
<kayront> sgp_: years?
<ErCiccione> Basically every time somebody open a PR, netlify will build it and show a preview. That's useful because people without a building environment can see how a PR will look like once merged
<ErCiccione> see https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/1016
<ErCiccione> That's something i look forward to and i hope will help increasing the activity on the monero-site repo
<dEBRUYNE> kayront: Realistically I think Triptych is 1-1.5 years out
<sarang> There are still some questions on multisig support due to some different math
<msvb-lab> midipoet: You (and all of us) can now again access #monero-defcon.
<midipoet> msvb-lab: thank you :-).
<selsta> ErCiccione: useful :D
<ErCiccione> i made a test PR that people can use as example
<midipoet> msvb-lab: there might still be a permissions issue…as I get an error trying to post a message
<binaryFate> ErCiccione I'll get to the netlify thing tomorrow
<ErCiccione> I PRd the edited homepage. You can see netlify's comment with a link
<ErCiccione> that's the PR built and deployed
<ErCiccione> thanks binaryfate :)
<sarang> ErCiccione: any practical risk of an attacker fooling someone into thinking it's the real site?
<sarang> I suppose such an attacker could just deploy their own clone of the code, and the domain is netlify…
<kayront> asked this in -dev several mins ago before realizing there's a meeting going on, does anyone know if this would be possible: " another thing: would it technically be possible to have an "account viewkey", rather than a wallet-wide one? use cases would be services that require the viewkey to confirm payments, generate addresses etc, this is a fairly common use case; and for simplicity/backup/sanity reasons it's helpful to only have one
<kayront> underlying seed"
<ErCiccione> unlikely IMO
<ErCiccione> but even if they do think it's the real website, there are no downloads
<ErCiccione> and the links are hard to mistake. The homepage for example is built here: https://deploy-preview-17–frosty-jones-8df25a.netlify.app
<sgp_> thanks ErCiccione
<sgp_> anything else on the website?
<sgp_> sarang: can you quickly give an update on MRL?
<ErCiccione> don't think so
<sarang> The CLSAG audit process is proceeding nicely
* midipoet realises there was a meeting
<sarang> I spent quite a bit of time re-running and correcting some tracing analysis that came out in a preprint
<sarang> The results are much better than the preprint had suggested
<sgp_> that was just a class project afaict
<sarang> Yes, but it got some attention and was a good excuse to run updated analysis anyway
<sgp_> thanks sarang
<sgp_> there's one topic ErCiccione wanted to discuss at the meeting
<sgp_> ErCiccione asked to reserve some time to make a decision of using “reasonably” in the homepage: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/471#issuecomment-639582413
<ErCiccione> yeah let's get done with that
<sgp_> I think it should be removed
<sgp_> it doesn't convey the nuances it attempted to convey imo
<ErCiccione> I liked it, but i see why people prefer to have it removed. If it's controversial, let's just remove it
<ErCiccione> people wanted to change "slogan" anyway, no?
<sgp_> yeah there were other ideas too
<kayront> fwiw i think it reads a bit like a cop-out
<deedledea> +1 for removing it
<kayront> i understand the idea behind it, but for the uninitiated it probably reads more like "it's probably not gonna keep my stuff private"
<sarang> The idea was that privacy and security always depend on risk and threat models
<sgp_> who gets that from "reasonably" though if they don't already get that
<binaryFate> remove it please, it's only in geek circles that people might get the honest meaning. We're very honest if people dig more, no need to confuse on the homepage
<kayront> yeah sarang, iirc QubesOS used/uses "reasonably secure" as well, in reality that's what it is because nothing can be 100% safe
<kayront> but for new people the nuance will be lost i reckon
<sgp_> any final comments?
<sarang> I'm not tied to that specific wording. As long as the presentation is honest and reasonable
<sgp_> okay, we can wrap up then. thanks for your patience as we went over
<sgp_> 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
<sgp_> The next community meeting will be in 2 weeks on 20 June at 17:00 UTC.
<sgp_> The next Coffee Chat is on Saturday 27 June at 17:00 UTC
<ErCiccione> alright, i'll remove it tomorrow
<sgp_> That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, STAY SAFE AND ISOLATED, and know that change starts with YOU.